Paul Nixon Posted 13 January , 2006 Share Posted 13 January , 2006 I'm a little puzzled. One of my Chailey patients indicates in Nurse Oliver's album that he was wounded at "Suvla Bay, Gallipoli Peninsula" on 1st September 1915. He states his name, number and regiment "5th Battn the Buffs". His medal index card shows his date of entry abroad as 30th July 1915 and his place of entry as 2b - ie: Gallipoli. So here's the puzzle. I have read on the mother site and elsewhere that the 1/5th Bn was in India from October 1914 to December 1915. My man clearly wasn't however, he was being wounded in Gallipoli. Just to confuse matters further, there are also a number of photographs in the album which clearly depict India (so he was there at some stage but not initially). Captions against some of the photos indicate he was at the Murree Hills and Rawal Pindi. Can anyone hazard an explanation please? It's probably staring me in the face but on the basis that 9000+ heads are better than one, I thought I'd post. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 13 January , 2006 Share Posted 13 January , 2006 A composite Battalion was made up of one company each from the 2/4 and 2/5 Buffs along with 2 companies from the West Kents. This composite Battalion went to Gallipoli but wore the West Kent's badge and ultimately was absorbed by them. If you let me know his name I'll check the medal rolls for you. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 13 January , 2006 Share Posted 13 January , 2006 A composite Battalion was made up of one company each from the 2/4 and 2/5 Buffs along with 2 companies from the West Kents. This composite Battalion went to Gallipoli but wore the West Kent's badge and ultimately was absorbed by them. If you let me know his name I'll check the medal rolls for you. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Mick Thanks for that - it looks as though that could be getting close to an answer. He was 1366 Lance-Corporal Ernest Ladd. Best wishes Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 16 January , 2006 Share Posted 16 January , 2006 Paul His date for the 1914/15 star is 30/7/15 at Gallipoli which is confusing because he is the only person in the Regiment with that date. He was disembodied on 10/12/1919. He was with the 1/5th Buffs but attached to the 2/4th West Kents (a Company of which which was part of that Composte Battalion). I do not know how he ended up in India Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 17 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Thanks for checking Mick, I appreciate your help on this. I suspect that he went back to India after he had recovered from his wound and that the photos from India were then sent to Nurse Oliver. Just a guess. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 21 January , 2006 Share Posted 21 January , 2006 Any relation of the Ladd's on Boughton Aluph war memorial near Ashford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 22 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2006 Not sure Neil, I'd need to check the census returns to try and find a connection. Problem is I have very basic information about Ernest that doesn't include his place or date of birth. If you have the details of the men on the memorial, please PM me or post here. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 22 January , 2006 Share Posted 22 January , 2006 Not sure Neil, I'd need to check the census returns to try and find a connection. Problem is I have very basic information about Ernest that doesn't include his place or date of birth. If you have the details of the men on the memorial, please PM me or post here. Cheers The Ladd's family were Blacksmiths and they constructed the Boughton Aluph War Memorial fence still to be seen. They resided on the village Green opposite the war men.. LADD F (brother) Private G/941 Frank R. LADD. 9th Battalion, The Buffs (East Kent Regiment). Died 16th June 1915. Born Boughton Lees. Resided Boughton Lees. Son of James and Jane Ladd of “Forge Cottage”, Boughton Lees, Ashford, Kent. Buried in the Thurrock (West Thurrock) Cemetery, Essex. Grave reference B.2.35. Frank’s father was the village Blacksmith. The Ashford 1918 Absentee Voters List gives – The Lees, Boughton Aluph Lance Corporal 240273 Ernest Edwin LADD. 5th Buffs (East Kent Regiment). Lance Corporal 96458 Sydney Edward LADD. Tank Corps. The 1901 census gives- Forge Cottage, Boughton Aluph James LADD 56 Blacksmith Wye Jane 35 Molash Frederick 23 Blacksmith Wye Ernest 13 Tonbridge James 12 Boughton Aluph Matilda 11 Boughton Aluph Hilda 10 Boughton Aluph John 9 Boughton Aluph Frank 8 Boughton Aluph Daisey 4 Boughton Aluph Sidney 2 years Boughton Aluph The 9th battalion was stationed in Dover at the time of Frank’s death. The 9th battalion never went overseas because it was used as a training battalion and was based at the Citadel in Dover with the 3rd (reserve) battalion. Frank was probably killed in some kind of training accident. Alternatively, he died of illness or disease. It is interesting that he was buried at Thurrock because a couple of Buffs battalions were in fact raised from there during the war years. LADD R Seaman 3295A Robert John LADD. HMS “Cressy”, Royal Naval Reserve (RNR). Died 22nd September 1914 aged 26 years. Born Wye. Resided Forge Lane, Boughton Aluph, Ashford, Kent. Son of Mrs E Ladd of 3 School Green, Southwold, Suffolk. Robert has no known grave. His name appears on the Chatham Naval Memorial, Chatham, Kent. Panel reference 8. The Ashford 1918 Absentee Voters List gives – The Lees, Boughton Aluph Lance Corporal 240273 Ernest Edwin LADD. 5th Buffs (East Kent Regiment). Lance Corporal 96458 Sydney Edward LADD. Tank Corps. The 1901 census gives – Forge Lane, Boughton Aluph Robert LADD 27 Bakers Assistant Wye HMS Cressy was a Cressy Class Cruiser built 4th December 1899 and commanded by Captain R.W Johnson. The Cruisers Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue were on patrol off the Dutch coast to prevent German forces from moving south to attack the Channel troop convoys. Owing to bad weather the three cruisers were without their destroyer escorts. At 0630 hours on the 20th September there was a violent explosion on Aboukir’s starboard side. She quickly assumed a 20 degree list to starboard while efforts were made to right the ship by counterflooding. However, the list kept on increasing until it was clear that she was going to capsize. Abandon ship was ordered and the Hogue prepared to rescue her crew. At 0655 hours Aboukir capsized and floated bottom up for a while before sinking. Captain Drummond thought that his ship had been mined but in fact she had been torpedoed by the U9 German Submarine (Captain Otto Weddigen). As Aboukir was sinking Captain Nicholson took Hogue in close to rescue survivors from the Cressy. As he did so U9 attacked the Aboukir and hit the ship with another torpedo in the midships. All guns were bought to bear on the submarine which by this time had been spotted. The Aboukir sank very quickly. The Captain of the Cressy (R.W Johnson) bought his ship alongside the Hogue to rescue survivors. As he did so the U9 once again went into attack mode firing off two torpedoes. Both struck the Cressy and she became U9’s third victim in less than an hour. That days death toll was a massive 1,459 men – Greater than the whole casualty rate of Nelson’s Battle of Trafalgar! Have a look at www.ashfordsfallen.com and www.roll-of-honour.com (kent page). I have researched all the war mems in Ashford area (and many others in Kent). My special interest is the 1/5th Buffs (Ashford's Own). I will Email you with my contact details in case there is anything you want such as photos etc... Yours Aye NEIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 22 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2006 Cheers Neil This is going to be a great help. I have a couple of photos of Ernest Ladd taken in India (Murree Hills) but I hadn't dug down to research where he was born or lived. This is very interesting. As you'll see from my original post, he fought in Gallipoli where he was wounded (Suvla Bay) and I then presume went to India. If you have dates for when the battn was in India - and where it was, that will also be a great help. Please do e-mail me and if you have a photograph of the war memorial at Boughton Aluph I'd be interested to see it. Thanks again for going to all this trouble. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 28 January , 2006 Share Posted 28 January , 2006 See www.ashfordsfallen.com and www.roll-of-honour (Kent page) Regards Neil Cheers Neil This is going to be a great help. I have a couple of photos of Ernest Ladd taken in India (Murree Hills) but I hadn't dug down to research where he was born or lived. This is very interesting. As you'll see from my original post, he fought in Gallipoli where he was wounded (Suvla Bay) and I then presume went to India. If you have dates for when the battn was in India - and where it was, that will also be a great help. Please do e-mail me and if you have a photograph of the war memorial at Boughton Aluph I'd be interested to see it. Thanks again for going to all this trouble. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadedgenes Posted 3 December , 2011 Share Posted 3 December , 2011 Hi All Sorry to be replying to such an old posting, but this is relevant to the previous discussion: I have added two new pages to my war memorials website today for the LADD brothers of Boughton Aluph. (Frank & John Roland). Frank's name is recorded correctly on the memorial at Boughton Aluph, but John Roland has been recorded as "Richard". It seems that he may have been known as Roland but that has been misread somewhere along the line between the village committee deciding the names for inclusion and the stone mason carving the names. I am pleased to finally come up with a correct identification for this man. Previous attempts include a man born in Southwold in East Anglia, and a man who died in Epsom in 1950. The pages are at: http://www.fadedgenes.co.uk/FrankLADD.html http://www.fadedgenes.co.uk/JohnRolandLADD.html All the best Dave D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane S Posted 23 March Share Posted 23 March On 22/01/2006 at 02:54, Paul Nixon said: Not sure Neil, I'd need to check the census returns to try and find a connection. Problem is I have very basic information about Ernest that doesn't include his place or date of birth. If you have the details of the men on the memorial, please PM me or post here. Cheers I am a direct descendant of the Ladd people in Boughton Aluph. Someone mentioned they have a photo of Ernest Ladd. Could I have a copy please? They lived at the Flying Horse Inn and Forge cottage Boughton Lees. Ernest's father was James b 1844 Wye kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 23 March Admin Share Posted 23 March 1 hour ago, Jane S said: I am a direct descendant of the Ladd people in Boughton Aluph. Someone mentioned they have a photo of Ernest Ladd. Could I have a copy please? They lived at the Flying Horse Inn and Forge cottage Boughton Lees. Ernest's father was James b 1844 Wye kent Welcome to the GWF @Paul Nixon is an active member of the forum and my tag should alert them to your post. You can also use the Personal Message system just click on the name an open the dialog box ‘message’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March (edited) @kenf48 thank you for alerting me to this. I am not really an 'active' member these days, more a very inactive one, but I am pleased to assist. @Jane S the two photos I have of Ernest Ladd are not great, as you can see. The one immediately below states "On the rocks at Burthan, [sic] Murree Hills" and the one below that is captioned with, "Resting at a native tea shop, Murree Hills". Helpfully, Ernest has indicated himself with a cross. Paul Edited 24 March by Paul Nixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane S Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March Paul, Thank you very much for these! Where did you get them from? Are there more which might have my ancestors there? Much appreciated for your fast response and text to accompany the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March His name appears in a VAD nurse's album, @Jane S, which I acquired many years ago, some of the research from which is published here: https://chailey1418.blogspot.com/ I also did some research on Ernest Ladd, but I should warn you - and others who may be quick to pounce - that this was undertaken at least 15 years ago and has not been re-visited since. You are welcome to use and expand as much or as little of it as you would like: Ernest is possibly the same Ernest Ladd who was born at Tonbridge, Kent about 1889 and who, when the 1891 census was taken, was living at The Flying Horse Inn in Boughton Aluph, Kent with his family. By 1901 the family was still at Boughton Aluph but living at Forge Cottage. John Ladd (recorded as James Ladd on the 1891 census) was the village blacksmith and Ernest (aged 13) is noted as a general labourer. Ernest’s service number – 1366 – indicates that he joined the 1/5th Buffs probably around 1910 or 1911. According to his medal card, he disembarked at Gallipoli on 30th July 1915 and then, as he says, was wounded on 1st September. He was at Hickwells in December because his name appears in a report published in the Sussex Daily News on the 20th of that month. He is noted as a band member in a “soldiers’ concert” which took place in Chailey. The article reports, “Many and various were the instruments, from bells, drums, whistle-pipes and tambourines, while even a brass candlestick was made use of, and last but not least an accordion. No encores were allowed and two of the nurses helped at the piano.” Two photos of Ernest Ladd appear in Nurse Oliver’s album, both of them identified as the Murree Hills in what is now Pakistan but what was then Northern India. There are also two photos taken in Rawalpindi and two others of tribal women, presumably also taken in northern India. This would certainly be in keeping with the battalion’s movements during the Great War as according to official records the battalion was in India from October 1914 until December 1915. Ernest Ladd however, was clearly not. He was being wounded in Gallipoli. Ernest appears to be the only person amongst the 1/5th Buffs who was unfortunate enough to land in Gallipoli. While the battalion, as noted above, was enjoying a non-hostile existence in northern India, Ernest was attached to the 2/4th West Kent Regiment. This was a composite battalion made up of one company each from the 2/4th and 2/5th Buffs along with two companies from the West Kents. The battalion wore the West Kent badge and ultimately was absorbed by the regiment. Ernest obviously recovered sufficiently from his wounds to be posted back to the 1/5th East Kent Regiment whilst it was still in India and I am guessing that the photos which appear in Nurse Oliver’s album must date from late December 1915 and were sent to her by Ernest shortly after he had arrived in the country. He can’t have been there very long however because in December 1915, the battalion transferred to Mesopotamia where it remained for the remainder of the war. In 1917 when the Territorials were renumbered, he acquired the number 240273 which formed part of the block of numbers allocated to the 1/5th East Kent Regiment. He appears on the Ashford Absentee Voters list for 1918 as Lance Corporal 240273 Ernest Edwin LADD, 5th Buffs (East Kent Regiment). The photos of India in Nurse Oliver’s album were almost certainly sent to her by Ernest once he had recuperated and been posted back to the 1/5th Buffs in India. Ernest was disembodied on 10th December 1919. He was entitled to the 1914/15 Star and the British War and Victory Medals. Sources and Acknowledgements The National Archives: Medal Index Card reference: WO 372/1 The National Archives: Medal Roll: British War & Victory Medals: E/2/102 B17 Page 2751: WO 329/668 The National Archives: Medal Roll: 1914/15 Star: Roll E/2/2 B7 Page 516: WO 329/2616 The Sussex Daily News Ashford Absent Voters’ List 1918 Mick and Neil of The Great War Forum for assistance with the Ladd family of Boughton Aluph and Ernest’s entries in the medal rolls at The National Archives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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