Tom A McCluskey Posted 11 January , 2006 Share Posted 11 January , 2006 I was wondering if anyone could help me with any historical details concerning the 12th (Service) Battalion Highland Light Infantry, especially the details concerning them at the battle of Loos? I would be very interested in finding out any information concerning this battalion i.e. History, Coy/ Platoon Photographs, muster rolls, recruiting area, Newspaper cuttings, other 12 HLI soliders obituaries. I would also be interested in finding out any information concerning my great granfather who served in this battalion during the First World War and was killed at Loos on 25th September. He is listed with CWGC but the details are very short and are as follows: 8355 Cpl William Moreland, 12 HLI, Killed 25 Sep 1915 His name is etched onto the Memorial wall at Dud Corner Cemetry. I believe he moved to Scotland (Glenboig) from Whitehaven and may possibly have served in the army before the First World War as he may have been 42 years of age when killed. I have his medal card and death certificate but do not have either a photograph of him or an obituary. If anyone has some information that would lead to how I could retrieve this kind of item and information, I would be most grateful. Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 11 January , 2006 Share Posted 11 January , 2006 His Scottish National War Memorial entry is below. Surname MORELAND Firstname William Service Number 8355 Date Death 25/09/1915 Decoration Place of birth Whitehaven Cumberland Other 12th Bn. SNWM roll THE HIGHLAND LIGHT INFANTRY Rank Cpl Theatre of death F.& F. Check out the Long, Long Trail (top left on this page) for 12th HLI and the Battle of Loos. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 11 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2006 Thanks Malcom, If you have any other historical info on this regiment than it would be much appreciated Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 12 January , 2006 Share Posted 12 January , 2006 My great uncle was killed at Loos with the 12th HLI - Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 12 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2006 Alistair, Good to hear from you. As we are heading in the same direction, I will try to keep you informed of any progress that I have made. I have requested the war diaries of the 3 Battalions in 46 Bde (10 SR, Cameronians, 7KOSB & 12 HLI). The remanents of these three battalions had to hold on, on Hill 70 so the diaries of the two other battalions may provide you with answers. You may already have it, but the book LOOS HILL - 70 by ANDREW RAWSON contains some good information about 46 Bde, maps, and battlefield guides. Also, if you are happy with it, it may be worth, posting your great grandfathers details and photos on the below listed website for posterity: http://www.silentcities.co.uk/cemeteryl/Lo...rial,%20K-L.htm Unfortunately, I do not have a photgraph of your great grandfather's name form the Loos memorial at Dud Corner otherwise I would send it on. I will ask my folks if they have one. A visit is moving and does provide some restitution for us that have no legacy of a great grandfather. Tried sending this twice with a photo of dud corner, but looks like it did not get through Yours Aye Tom McC Sorry Alistair Great Uncle, Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 13 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2006 Alistair, Have a look at my other chat forum concerning 12 HLI: http://www.lostgeneration1418.com/forums/i...ct=ST&f=1&t=498 A fellow called Marc/Mallory has sent in a picture of 12 HLI marching through Romsey, prior to deploying to France. Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 13 January , 2006 Share Posted 13 January , 2006 Hi, I havent read the Rawson book, I have only read one book on Loos (cant recall the author) but as my great Uncle was killed after the Battle I dont think I am likely to find much - he didnt even arrive in theatre (going by his MIC) til a week after your Great Grandfathers death. I will look at posting his details on the site you mention, the more his details are out and about the more possibility of some feedback, plus it will help keep his memory alive. I have been to Dud corner twice, and have a couple of photos at home, but I am not quite sure where they are - next time I will try visit some of the other cemetaries in the area, as if he was found and buried as an unknown I think he may be in one of the other cemetaries. Thanks Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 13 January , 2006 Share Posted 13 January , 2006 http://www.1914-1918.net/BATTLES/bat13_loos/bat.htm I assume you have read the account on the main site. You may also want to obtain the History of the 15th Scottish Division from Naval and Military Press. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 13 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2006 Malcom, I have read the account, mentions 46 Bde, but nothing on 12 HLI , Hopefully I should have their war diary arriving form NA Cheers anyway Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Alistair, until the arrival of the 12 HLI diary, not much can be confirmed. It has been so long, please keep the faith. The chances are your great uncle survived a great many turmoils at Loos. Making it to November, Daniel made it to a date that many could only hope for, this does not make your family loss any easier, but please be reassured that some are breaking the same path. Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Alstair, I think on the 28th of Septembe 1915, 12 HLI received a large draft of NCOs and men to replace the tremendous losses a Loos. It is possible your uncle was one of these drafts. I believe my mother may have an article relating to this. When it arrives I will let you know. Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Here is my Great Grandfather's Medal Card Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Hi, I have the page of the War Diary that covers the time of his death, but their is very little info, I had thought about trying to get the War Diaries from his arrival to see if it mentioned the arrival of reeinforcements.. Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 May I suggest you guys check out this thread. Books on Loos thread here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Alistair, 2 other 12 HLI soldiers were reported as Died of Wounds at the same time as your Great Uncle. Here is the article reported in the Scotsman on 14 Dec 1915: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Don't know what happened there, but here it is again: Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Look at the Died of wounds section: Campbell & Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Thanks for that - another cutting to add to the small group I have, I am always on the look out for more. I have attached the relevant bit from the Battalion diary, I guess from reading the other thread suggested above I should buy the book about the Hohenzollern - it may not cover the period of his death their (or maybe it does) but it will hopefully give me an idea of the lay of the land - something that isnt really practicle when you visit on a peaceful day Thanks again Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Pte 1643, Cheers for the link. I met Niall Cherry at the 90th Anniversary of the Battle of Loos in France. He was plugging his book. His book is excellent and must have been a labour to put together. Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Alistair, Some of the diaries, as is evident form the piece you have, are not too specific. But, hopefully more information providers will come forward with a bit of time. Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 When I visited teh RHF museum I was told it would be easier to track an officer, so maybe its worth me looking into the wounding of Lt Gordon that is noted on the 25th in case it is linked. Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Alistair, I think an officer would be easier to trace as evidence of their career/history is better documented than the other ranks. Their promotions and postings are gazetted in news paper articles etc. Concerning your great uncle, the 2 other HLI soldiers may have been mortally wounded whilst carrying out the same task as Daniel. The obituaries for Lee & Campbell may provide some clues as to what happened. May be worth putting their names into CWGC and SDGW to find out where they are from. As their local papers may bear fruit. Good Luck Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 15 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2006 Alistair, What you need is a copy of the Highland Light Infantry Chronicle (from the RHF Museum), it is in good detail and gives a fair idea of what was happening. Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottsGreys Posted 15 January , 2006 Share Posted 15 January , 2006 Tom: I see that the Scottish Natl. War Memorial gives William's PoB as Whitehaven, not Ireland, but see this Moreland household below from the 1881 Census of Whitehaven, the birthyear and age of this young William Moreland would be the same as for yours, if he indeed was killed at 42. William Moreland may be a common name, but I thought this might be of interest. Chris Wm. Mckee 50 (born) abt 1831 Ireland Father in Law (Iron Furnace Labourer) 13 Todhunters Building, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Joseph Moreland 30 (born) abt 1851 Ireland Head (Labourer Iron Works) 13 Todhunters Building, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Joseph Moreland 7 (born) abt 1874 Ireland Son (Scholar) 13 Todhunters Building, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Mary Moreland 27 (born) abt 1854 Ireland Wife 13 Todhunters Building, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Mary Amy Moreland 5 (born) abt 1876 Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Daughter (Scholar) 13 Todhunters Building, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England *Wm. Moreland 8 (born) abt 1873 Ireland Son (Scholar) 13 Todhunters Building, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 15 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2006 Botts Grey, Thanks for the very detailed information. I appreciate As you quite rightly stated, his enlistment states he was born in England. I think the Morelands were English planters that lived in the Saintfield area of Northern Ireland (The name is very common in the Cumbria/Northumbria area). There is also no date of birth on the 'Soldiers Died in the Great War'. His age would make him too old to serve in the army, unless of course he liead about his age or had previous military service. I believe round about the time of K2/K3, ex NCOs were able to join up to 50 to provide a thread of experience. Family anecdotal evidence suggests he had previous service and was a Sergeant. Finding this out, without photos is particularly dificult. The search goes on. Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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