Grenades/Bombs and their users

[Potter]

Friends, may I tap into your expertise, please.

I am researching a British battalion which suffered casualties during bombing practice in August 1915. This raised some questions for me:

1. Were grenades/bombs at this time dangerous weapons to use compared with later in the war?

2. If so, why was this?

3. I know there were specialist bombers. Apart from, presumably being good throwers, what skills did they have?

4. Did non-specialists also train to use bombs?

4. Is it correct that grenades were re-named bombs at the request of the King because the Grenadier Guards objected to the specialists being called grenadiers?

Many thanks for your help.

Phil

[Max Poilu]

Phil,

There are quite a lot of previous questions on grenades that may interest you - have a look at these topics:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...ighlite=grenade

And this search from the archive has many of the missing attachments.

Before the 'automatic' igniting Mills came into reasonable use in the Summer of 1915 a variety of 'emergency pattern' grenades were in use alongside the early No.1 and No.2 standard percussion patterns. These included the No.6 to No.8 (including the Jam Tin types), the No.15 'Loos' pattern, the 'Hairbrush' pattern and the Pitcher etc. Most of these have been disucssed in previous topics and more info will be in the search above.

The early No.1 (the only grenade in use by the Brtish Army in August 1914) and No.2 (Hales) percussion grenades were considered dangerous as they were made live before throwing and therfore an inadvertant strike of the head during launch would detonate the grenade. The 'emergency' patterns noted above had timed fuzes. The design of the Pitcher was a poor one however, and it was liable to 'prematures'.

Later designs such as the Mills only became live when they had left the hand, the design incorporating an automatic lighting and reliable timed fuze made most other designs redundant. If your men were training in August 1915 they may have been using the 'new' Mills. They were safe if used properly but they are still dangerous things and many men died as a result of accidents. The earliest design (later modified) of lever and striker top meant that once the pin was pulled, if the pressure on the lever was slightly eased it could sometimes release the striker even though the grenade was still being held. Some men froze and could not 'let go' of the grenade, grenades were 'dropped', etc, etc. Dangerous things...

Something I wrote in an earlier discussion:

Just a bit more background info. The term 'grenade' itself is now generally agreed to be a derivation of the Spanish word for a pomegranate fruit to which early grenades resembled. History describes the use of grenades from the 16th century but simpler non-explosive projectiles were used from earlier times containing flammable materials or even poison.

The first grenades in general use were incredibly similar to the French ball grenade (the main service grenade in the French army at the start of the Great War) basically an iron sphere, filled with black powder and a simple length of fuze.

'Grenadiers' themselves were first introduced into the French army in 1667 with four highly trained men per company. The British introduced a grenade company per regiment in 1684. The grenades then were poorly manufactured and required skill and great courage in use. The grenade throwers would typically lead the attack - Grenadiers were the bravest, strongest soldiers hand picked and well trained and the reputation that goes with their name obviously remains to this day.

It was following the battle of Waterloo that the flaming badge was introduced when the victorious First Regiment of Foot Guards became the Grenadier Guards.

The use of grenades in anything other than siege warfare really died out in the 17th century with the improvenments in musketry. It's renaissance came in the Russo-Japanese war and of course in the entrenched Great War the grenade really became the infantryman's principal weapon above the rifle.

The first grenades in the Great War were only utilised by specially trained men, this changed with time and perhaps as the war progressed more men hurled a grenade in anger than actually fired their SMLE.

[J T Gray]

Phil,

See if you can find a copy of Anthony Saunder's' book "Weapons of the Trench War" - that has a great deal on the development of the grenade as we know it, and it's risks.

Special skills? Not sure, but coming from a cricketing nation probably helped as you were supposed to "bowl" a grenade with a straight arm!

For detaisl of the bok see

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...product-details

But I'd try abebooks.com for a copy rather than mazon.

Adrian

[Tony Lund]

The instructions for Jam Tin Bombs are in the Official History, either 1914 or 1915, and I can’t remember which volume.

Towards the end of April 1915 the 1st 5th Battalion, Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment, assumed responsibility for a section of the front line, and two regular soldiers were left behind to instruct them in the manufacture of Jam Tin Bombs and Hairbrush Bombs, both were kinds of rough, home-made hand grenades. A jam tin bomb was an empty jam tin filled with a mixture of shredded guncotton and nails, or any handy small pieces of metal, with a Number 8 detonator and a short length of Bickford’s fuse inserted, the top was then sealed with clay. A hairbrush bomb was simply a piece of wood shaped like a hairbrush with a handle, which allowed it to be thrown a bit further. Guncotton was secured to the timber with wire and a detonator and fuse added. In both cases once the fuse was lit the bombs were thrown as soon and as far as possible.

Safer and more reliable grenades were already being produced all over the country, mostly by women, including the employees of the Standards Fireworks Company at Crosland Moor, Huddersfield. This photograph appeared on 1st August 1915.

Tony.

[Max Poilu]

Thanks Bruce.

[T8HANTS]

Hi

nearly every granade ever produced will hurl its bits back further than you can throw the thing away, so you don't watch the result.

[Max Poilu]

Hi

nearly every granade ever produced will hurl its bits back further than you can throw the thing away, so you don't watch the result.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really true; we need to be careful to differentiate between defensive (or fragmentation) grenades (British Mills, German Kugel, French F1 etc) and offensive grenades (German stick, 'Discus', British No.33 etc). 'Defensive' grenades are designed to be thrown from cover - they create lethal pieces of casing over a large radius that encompasses the thrower. Offensive grenades achieve their effect mainly through 'blast' over a small radius or in a confined space.

Offensive types typically have a heavy iron or steel casing giving a similar effect to a high-explosive shell, defensive types typically have a thin tin or steel plate casing giving a more local and less powerful explosion.

[Potter]

Giles, Adrian, Tony,

Many thanks for your responses.

Best wishes

Phil

[Gunboat]

Robert Graves in his autobiography recalls an Irish Sergeant killing himself and another and wounding many by banging a percussion grenade against a table during some unofficial instruction

[J T Gray]

Safer and more reliable grenades were already being produced all over the country,

Tony.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Got to smile at your line above, Tony. The bombs pictured look horribly like the No 15, which had a fuse that needed to be lit. These failed dismally at Loos a month after the photo was taken because they got wet and as many as nineteen of every twenty failed to ignite.

On the bright side, it would still hurt if someone hit you with one, whether iot went bang or not...

Adrian