28th June 1915

[michaeldr]

Helles: “June 28th. – An attack was made against the Turkish defences, consisting of five lines of trenches on Gully Spur, and also two lines of trenches on a 700 yards front on Fir Tree Spur. On this front the Turks had two divisions covered by approximately seventy guns and howitzers.

Our attacking troops were the 29th Division, the 29th Indian Infantry Brigade, and the 156th Brigade of the 52nd Division, supported by a cruiser and two destroyers and seventy-seven guns and howitzers.

The bombardment started at 0900 hours until 1045 hours, when the Border Regiment rushed forward and captured Boomerang Redoubt. On Gully Spur the 87th Brigade captured their objectives easily.

East of Gully Ravine progress was not easy as the artillery bombardment, through lack of high explosives, had not been effective.

Our losses were heavy. The Turks made many bombing counter-attacks, which our troops had great difficulty in with-standing, as there was a shortage of effective bombs. Our left flank faced east instead of north-east, and was within a mile of Krithia. There were no reserves available to exploit this success, and on the right flank heavy fighting continued in order to maintain the position there as the original assault had not been successful.”

Anzac: “June 28th. – A demonstration was made at Anzac from Tasman Post. Enemy’s positions on the lower spurs of Pine Ridge were occupied. The Turks brought up reinforcements from Eski Keui.

These troops were heavily shelled by our artillery and from our destroyers. During the evening our troops withdrew to the Tasman Post trenches.”

from ‘Notes and Comments on the Dardanelles Campaign’ by A. Kearsey, DSO., OBE., psc., late Lieutenant-Colonel, General Staff

Helles: “Monday, June 28. – Another battle. Oh, how terrible they are! It began at 10 a.m. in earnest, with a terrific artillery bombardment, which had started the night before. At 11 a.m. the infantry went out and the wounded started to pour in. First the slight cases able to walk, in crowds. Everything seemed to be going well. The Turks were on the run and we had got a line or two of trenches. Then later on in came the stretcher cases, and kept coming all night and next day till about 2 p.m. We had five doctors fortunately, and five wagons wo0rking the whole time clearing the wounded down to Gully Beach. In twenty-four hours we had 500 wounded through, and the 88th, who are next door, about the same number. We were about as full as possible all the time. Eight died here, but were unconscious. The heat was terrific and the flies were simply awful. It is impossible to keep them off. I am not feeling well and was pretty limp. There is little I can do. The men are just longing for the wagons to take them away. We had men from all regiments. The majority seemed to have shrapnel wounds. Our artillery had given such a terrific bombardment that the Turkish infantry simply disappeared and only the guns played on the advancing troops. But the rifle fire started towards evening, when the Dublins lost heavily. I went over to ‘Y’ beach in the afternoon to see how they were getting on there, and found them full of wounded, about 400 cases altogether. An artillery officer was lying there with his leg blown off. He died afterwards. I……… was there, so I did not stop. The L.F.’s and R.F.’s had made the last advance, and I gathered had lost practically all their newly collected officers. I was so tired that I slept part of the night, but was up again at dawn. They had been evacuating all night.”

from ‘With the Twenty-Ninth Division in Gallipoli’ by Rev. O. Creighton

[PPCLI]

Hi Michael,

Here is a scathing article on Lt.-Gen. Hunter-Weston that I found while trawling the Web looking for KOSB actions in the Dardanelles. It relates to the attack by the 156th Brigade of the 52nd (Lowland) Division - it's the "blooding the pups" part that does me in everytime:

"Sir Aylmer Gould Hunter-Weston (1864–18 March 1940) was a British general who served in the First World War. At the outbreak of the war in 1914 he commanded a brigade on the Western Front. When the Battle of Gallipoli commenced in March 1915 Hunter-Weston was promoted to the command of the British 29th Division which was to make the landing at Cape Helles near the entrance to the Dardanelles. As the campaign proceeded and more reinforcements were dispatched to Helles, Hunter-Weston's responsibilities grew until on May 24 he was promoted to lieutenant general and given command of the British VIII Corps.

He was invalided from Gallipoli in July, supposedly from nervous exhaustion, and returned to England. In October 1916 he was elected to the House of Commons as the member for North Ayrshire.

Hunter-Weston returned to command the VIII Corps when it was re-established in France in 1916. At the launch of the Somme Offensive on July 1, 1916 it was Hunter-Weston's divisions which suffered the worst casualties and failed to capture any of their objectives.

Nicknamed 'Hunter-Bunter', Hunter-Weston was a classic example of the British "donkey" general — he was also referred to as "The Butcher of Helles" for his utter disregard for the welfare of his troops and his incompetent battle plans. Hunter-Weston was an advocate of the broad frontal assault made in daylight. When his plan of attack for the Second Battle of Krithia failed on the first day, he proceeded to repeat the plan on the second and third days. He claimed he was "blooding the pups" when he made the inexperienced 156th Brigade of the British 52nd (Lowland) Division attack without artillery support during the Battle of Gully Ravine. Half the brigade became casualties of which over a third were killed."

From: Hunter-Weston

If anyone has a different opinion of Hunter-Weston I would like to hear it. Most of what I have read has been, in the main, negative. Also, I would like to find out the source of the "blooding the pups" quip.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Julian Dawson]

Richard Holmes in his masterful 'Tommy' (required reading for all on this Forum I think ;-) ), quotes a corps commander's attempt to be well known; in this case our 'friend' Hunter Weston. In the bitter winter of 1917-18 he decided to wish the troops departing on leave trains a merry Christmas. An aide de camp would open the carriage door and the general would intone 'I am Lieutenant General Sir Aylmer Hunter-Weston MP, your corps commander, and I wish you a Happy Christmas. From the smoky fug of one carriage, a disembodied voice declared 'And I'm the Prince of Wales, and wish you'd shut the bloody door'.

However, no mention is made of the reputation mentioned above.

[michaeldr]

Col Michael Hickey in his ‘Gallipoli’ has the remark as

“He [Maj Gen Granville Egerton, CO 52nd Div] was even more distressed to hear of Hunter-Weston’s comment that he was ‘delighted to hear that the pups had been so well blooded.’”

From this, it is not clear to me as to whom H-W addressed the original remark

But it was well within his character

Compton Mackenzie in his ‘Gallipoli Memories’ has

“‘Many casualties?’ asked General Paris [CO RND] in a voice that could not hide the bitterness he felt over the losses of his splendid Division. And as I think of General Hunter-Weston’s reply I fancy I see a falcon strike angrily at some grizzled trusty old dog.

‘Casualties?’ ‘What do I care for casualties?’

The other rose from his chair.

‘I must be getting back’ he growled.

‘You’ll stay to tea?’

‘No, thanks.’”

See also the entry on this forum for ‘4th June 1915’

By the end of May, the RND had made several successful night-time raids

But H-W was not prepared to learn from their experience and he continued with his deadly day-light attacks

There was someone in a recent edition of ‘The Gallipolian’ asking for info on H-W

suggesting to me that there may be a new bio in the pipeline

Does anyone know exactly why H-W replaced [on 13th March 1915] the 29th Div’s original CO, Maj Gen F. C. Shaw CB?

And would it have made any difference if Shaw had been allowed to stay?

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Patrick H]

. From the smoky fug of one carriage, a disembodied voice declared 'And I'm the Prince of Wales, and wish you'd shut the bloody door'.

However, no mention is made of the reputation mentioned above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent ! I wonder if any collection of such retorts was ever made? I for one would be interested to hear more of them

Patrick

[PPCLI]

Michael,

I don't know whether to thank you for your post about H-W or not! His attitude to loss of life is quite upsetting.

Stuart

[michaeldr]

Stuart & Patrick,

It should be possible to publish a collection along the lines of

‘The Analects of Aylmer’

Or

‘Hunter-Weston’s Hearty Words’

Or

‘Aylmer’s Aphorisms’

Or perhaps even

‘The Wit and Wisdom of Hunter-Weston’

His ‘Personal Note’ addressed to ‘Each man of the 29th Division on the occasion of their first going into action together’ included the following bleak forecast

“We must be prepared to suffer hardships, privations, thirst and heavy losses by bullets, by shells, by mines, by drowning.”

Captain Stair Gillon (Late KOSB, 29th Div) writing in his ‘The Story of the 29th Division-A record of gallant deeds’ called this ‘a spirited and inspiring message’

But I would like to know what the other-ranks actually thought of it.

48 hours later, when he was expecting a fierce Turkish counter attack on the 26th April H-W issued a General Order containing the inspiring line that

“Every man will die at his post rather than retire.”

Hickey in his ‘Gallipoli’ said that H-W “had little knowledge of the ordeals through which the men under his command had passed.”

The various statements by H-W show that he knew that his men were going to face ordeals and that not a few of them would die; the question is, did he realise what this actually meant to the men involved and did he realise that it was more significant say, than the loss of a horse or a couple of hounds in a hunt?

I have seen it written that he was popular with his men, but I do not recollect anyone ever producing any actual evidence to substantiate this

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Julian Dawson]

Stuart & Patrick,

I have seen it written that he was popular with his men, but I do not recollect anyone ever producing any actual evidence to substantiate this  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although by the same token, is there any evidence to say that he was specifically unpopular? It would be interesting to know what sources talk about his popularity. When he was a corps commander, I suspect that most PBI didn't even know who he was; as with most corps commanders. Hence his attempt to cause draughts on railway carriages.