Grenade fuses

[Ozzie]

A question for the experts.

Could the fuse in either a Mills Grenade (No 5 Mark 1) or RL Grenade No 6 or 7 be altered to allow, say, a ten second delivery?

I have an Officers note book that explains everything else but this.

Ta

Kim

[gew98]

Kim ; I should think not. The fuzes on Mills grenades were made of a chemical mix that had a specific burn rate to initiate the detonation. I can remember for example on some soviet grenades I handeld that when the fuzes were screwed out they had small markings like " 0,3" which meant a three second delay. Found some marked "0,0" and they were potentially very dangerous as they were meant for booby traps and not good old chucking.

A question for the experts.

Could the fuse in either a Mills Grenade (No 5 Mark 1) or RL Grenade No 6 or 7 be altered to allow, say,  a ten second delivery?

I have an Officers note book that explains everything else but this.

Ta

Kim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest]

A Mills fuze was basically a single assembly that could not have the timing adjusted in the field. It consisted of a percussion cap, to be initiated by the spring loaded striker once the fly off lever came away on being thrown, a length of safety fuze and a detonator. The detonator was crimped onto the safety fuze and could not be removed.

Standard safety fuze is a slow burning, gunpowder filled fuze used for demolition purposes. The standard burning rate was a foot per 30 seconds (plus or minus 3 seconds), so if accurately cut to length, the timing was fairly precise.

I am not sure that the timing of the Mills fuze safety fuze was the same as this, but the same principle applied, that the delay was determined by the length of fuze.

I am not sure how WWI Mills grenades were packed, but late production 36M grenades had the fuzes packed in a separate tin within the box, to be inserted into the grenade via the threaded base plate. A key for removing and replacing base plates was provided with each box.

It was recognised by WWII that the original fuze timing was too long and fuzes were introduced with the timing reduced (from memory) from 7 seconds to 4.5.

[Max Poilu]

Could the fuse in either a Mills Grenade (No 5 Mark 1) or RL Grenade No 6 or 7 be altered to allow, say, a ten second delivery?

I have an Officers note book that explains everything else but this.

Theoretically it could but they were not generally altered. The fuzes were pre-built with a set length of Bickford cord (giving a 5 sec delay) - basically a black powder train within a gutta-percha rope crimped to a standard No.6 detonator and the other end fitted inside the cap holder. Before use the assembly was inserted in the base of the grenade.

(All Mills had the grenade bodies packed seperately from the dets - they were not pre-assembled - off topic but remember the famous Dad's Army episode - 'The Deadly Attachment' when Wilson refused to prime the grenades with live dets?).

Nearly all hand thrown grenades had an average 5 second fuze, catapult launched models such as the No.15 had a 9 second fuze. Most soldiers could throw a Mills size hand grenade around 20 - 40 yards. A longer fuze may of course allow the enemy time to throw it back!

Edited 25 June , 2005 by Giles Poilu

[Max Poilu]

Here is a close-up of the fuze assembly, this is an early example from a No.5 with a beautifully made (and maker marked) brass cap holder:

[Simon Jones]

It was recognised by WWII that the original fuze timing was too long and fuzes were introduced with the timing reduced (from memory) from 7 seconds to 4.5.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can anyone exactly confirm the original and modified timings for the Mills type grenade and the dates. I am interested in connection with 2Lt Edward Baxter, the Liverpool Irish bombing officer, who dropped a grenade from which he had removed the pin while the German wire was being cut prior to a raid. He unscrewed the base, pulled out the detonator and pushed it into the ground before it went off. This was in March 1916. How long would he have had to do it? He got a VC for this and his conduct during the raid, in which he was killed.

Regards

Simon

[Ozzie]

Thankyou for your help. as I said I have a notebook but I am not up the techincal side of it enough to know whether they could be changed.

[Max Poilu]

Can anyone exactly confirm the original and modified timings for the Mills type grenade and the dates. I am interested in connection with 2Lt Edward Baxter, the Liverpool Irish bombing officer, who dropped a grenade from which he had removed the pin while the German wire was being cut prior to a raid. He unscrewed the base, pulled out the detonator and pushed it into the ground before it went off. This was in March 1916. How long would he have had to do it? He got a VC for this and his conduct during the raid, in which he was killed.

He was obviously a very clever (and fast thinking!) gentleman.

But see my post above - 5 seconds. In terms of land use hand thrown Mills No's 5 and 23 I believe it remained 5 seconds througout the Great War. Rifle launched No.36's had a delay of 7 seconds later increased to 8.2 +/- 1.2 seconds. Many other detonator assemblies were available througout the Mills lifetime beyond the Great War - some Naval Mills had delays of 3 seconds +/- 1.5 seconds. There were also Mills with four second fuzes +/- .5 second.

[Ozzie]

If anyone would like the whole lot email me.

[Simon Jones]

He was obviously a very clever (and fast thinking!) gentleman.

But see my post above - 5 seconds.  ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Giles Thank you

[Ozzie]

Another. There are approx. twelve pages, the officer attended courses in 1916

[Ozzie]

I knew I had come to the right place. So, what I need to know now is...

Was there a hand thrown grenade or hand thrown bomb used in1917 that you could fiddle the fuse to extend the time before it exploded?

Ta

kim

[Max Poilu]

knew I had come to the right place. So, what I need to know now is...

Was there a hand thrown grenade or hand thrown bomb used in1917 that you could fiddle the fuse to extend the time before it exploded?

Ozzie,

Same reply applies! Having said that, it would not be difficult to pull the cord out of the cap holder, cut out a small amount and re-fit it to alter the length (and burn time) of the fuze (more difficult to extend the burn time). Maybe this sort of thing was done for specialist operations or for booby traps but as mentioned above 'instantaneous' fuze was available for this purpose.

[Ozzie]

Thankyou Giles, Angie, Gew and Simon, for your patience.

It looks like I'll have to come up with something else.

Kim

[Ozzie]

Another question. Some of obviously have had some experience with the real thing, or you have studied the subject rather well.

Would a live grenade thrown in a bag of other assorted grenades, trench morters, detonate them or would the others become undetonated missiles?

Ta

Kim