Major Hugh Ross Macintyre DSO,MC+Bar, MID, MD,PHD. RAMC

[Glengarry1950]

Good Afternoon Troops,

I am currently researching Major Hugh Ross Macintyre DSO, MC + Bar, MID, MD, PHD RAMC, I have his MIC he entered theatre of war 22/12/1914 France, I have copies of his three Citations all for Conspicuous Gallantry, MC 16/08/1917, MC Bar, 18/03/1918, DSO 01/02/1919 for conspicuous gallantry during operation on the 3rd Battle of Piave, Italy between 27th and 29th 1918, MID 04/01/1917.

Hugh Ross Macintyre was born 1882 in NewChwang,(now Yingkon) China, to a Scottish Mother and Father who were both missionaries, along with the famous missionary John Ross, Hugh mothers brother. He attended George Watson's College in Edinburgh Scotland qualified as a doctor from Edinburgh University 1904. MB, Ch. B. 1908 M.D., Practiced as a locum in East Harlsey, Northhallerton, Yorkshire, England, RAMC 1914 Dec Lieut.,Captain Dec 1915, Major Jan 1918. Hugh died age 50 on 23 February 1932 while practicing with his wife Dr Lilian Sarah Macintyre at Broad Green Sanatorium Edge Lane Drive Liverpool England.

I have nothing on his military service or a photograph of him, therefore, I am seeking help in tracing which unit he was with so that I can then pore over the respective War Diaries.

I have attached a photograph of his miniature medals which I have, his full size medals sold last year in November with no research done other than his LG citations. I am keen to learn as much as I can on the 3rd Battle of Piave, Italy were he won his DSO once I can find out which unit he was with, any help or suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.

With kind regards

Hiram

[rflory]

The University of Edinburgh Roll of Honour 1914-1919 indicates that MacIntyre served with 9th Clearing Hospital, France, Somme 1916, Messines, 1917; Italy (Piave) 1918. [possibly 9th Casualty Clearing Station]

[clk]

Good Afternoon Troops,

I am currently researching Major Hugh Ross Macintyre DSO, MC + Bar, MID, MD, PHD RAMC, I have his MIC he entered theatre of war 22/12/1914 France, I have copies of his three Citations all for Conspicuous Gallantry, MC 16/08/1917, MC Bar, 18/03/1918, DSO 01/02/1919 for conspicuous gallantry during operation on the 3rd Battle of Piave, Italy between 27th and 29th 1918, MID 04/01/1917.

Hugh Ross Macintyre was born 1882 in NewChwang,(now Yingkon) China, to a Scottish Mother and Father who were both missionaries, along with the famous missionary John Ross, Hugh mothers brother. He attended George Watson's College in Edinburgh Scotland qualified as a doctor from Edinburgh University 1904. MB, Ch. B. 1908 M.D., Practiced as a locum in East Harlsey, Northhallerton, Yorkshire, England, RAMC 1914 Dec Lieut.,Captain Dec 1915, Major Jan 1918. Hugh died age 50 on 23 February 1932 while practicing with his wife Dr Lilian Sarah Macintyre at Broad Green Sanatorium Edge Lane Drive Liverpool England.

I have nothing on his military service or a photograph of him, therefore, I am seeking help in tracing which unit he was with so that I can then pore over the respective War Diaries.

I have attached a photograph of his miniature medals which I have, his full size medals sold last year in November with no research done other than his LG citations. I am keen to learn as much as I can on the 3rd Battle of Piave, Italy were he won his DSO once I can find out which unit he was with, any help or suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.

With kind regards

Hiram

Question also asked in this topic

Hiram,

At least at one time he was with the 69th FA. I've posted a couple of bits on the other topic.

Regards

Chris

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I am currently researching Major Hugh Ross Macintyre DSO, MC + Bar, MID, MD, PHD RAMC,

Here is the D.S.O. Recipient's Book entry for H.R. Macintyre :-

MACKINTYRE, H.R., M.D. ( D.S.O. London Gazette 1.2.1919 ), T/Capt. ( A/Major ), R.A.M.C., attached 20th Field Ambulance ; M.C.

Regards,

LF

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Dick

CCSs were originally called Clearing Hospitals, but the designation was changed early in the war.

Ron

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I am currently researching Major Hugh Ross Macintyre DSO, MC + Bar, MID, MD, PHD RAMC,

Hiram,

I found a couple of photographs of Officers and men from the 20th Field Ambulance taken in 1918, and noticed that there was a Major in the photograph who appears to be wearing a Military Cross ribbon, with Major H.R. Macintyre being awarded is Military Cross in August 1917.

So perhaps, could this be your Major Macintyre ?

Attached are the 2 group photographs, and one detail showing the Major.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2

The major.

[clk]

Hi LF,

Here is the D.S.O. Recipient's Book entry for H.R. Macintyre :-

MACKINTYRE, H.R., M.D. ( D.S.O. London Gazette 1.2.1919 ), T/Capt. ( A/Major ), R.A.M.C., attached 20th Field Ambulance ; M.C.

Regards,

LF

Is it possible that there might be an error in the book? The DSO Register (p224/337 of the download of WO 390/8) has him as attached 69 FA, which is consistent with his MC award. I haven't got copies of the respective war diaries. but it would seem that 69 FA was in Italy at the time, whereas 20 FA don't appear to have been.

(This is the LG version of the award, which is slightly clearer to read than the Register version)

Hopefully Hiram will be able to establish by looking at the respective diaries/events recorded.

Regards

Chris

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Is it possible that there might be an error in the book?

Chris,

The D.S.O. Recipient's Book clearly states 20th Field Ambulance, and as those two photographs were both taken before October 1918, there is the possibility he was with the 20th Field Ambulance in France, before transferring to the 69th Field Ambulance when he went to Italy at the end of 1918.

Regards,

LF

[clk]

Thanks LF,

I'm not suggesting that you have misread, and would apologise to you if my comment seemed to suggest that.

I find it really interesting trying to piece together things from the fragments of records that still exist.

His MC card and his first citation indicate that in 1917 he was serving with the 69th FA. The Bar citation is silent on his unit though, but (for me) his DSO citation indicates that he was still with them in 1918 when his actions warranted the award.

Annoyingly (as the subject is being run in two places) in this topic he is purported to have served at one time with the 29th FA (and initially with the 9th CCS). I did wonder if the entry for 20th/ 29th FA may be mis-transcriptions. I guess that only his officer file would really "nail it", but I understand from another recent topic, if he were an RAMC (TF) officer, they no longer exist. Although as an officer, I would guess that the respective war diaries would probably record his arrival/departure, and help Hiram to clarify,

Regards

Chris

[Glengarry1950]

Good afternoon Gentlemen,

Can I just say thank you very much to L.F. and Chris for your time and the information that you have so kindly supplied.

Chris you refer to his MC card what is that? I have his MIC which frustratingly does not even note his DSO or MC's, I have checked with NA, which I find extremely difficult to navigate, they have noting on him and you are right Chris all Volunteer officers, who did not remain in service after 1920, records were destroyed, a dam shame. On his units war diaries have they been digitalised yet or is it a case requesting a copy from NA, I am a full time subscriber to Ancestry can I read them through that ?

L.F. Thank you for the photograph that is extremely exciting, I have got other irons in the fire with regards a photograph but to date little response, I E mailed George Watson's Collage Edinburgh giving his details asking if he appeared in any Group or individual photo's no answer to date, I have also spoken to Gale at the RAMC museum she was very enthusiastic and under took to search his name for a photograph in the first instance, failing that if I pay £20 they will do a full search through their records, that was only last week.

I apologies for the post being in to places I only wanted on the RAMC data base to note his existence. Are the MODs in a position to merge the to threads I would be fine with that.

With kind regards

Hiram

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Thanks LF,

I'm not suggesting that you have misread, and would apologise to you if my comment seemed to suggest that.

Chris,

Not at all, and at no time did I think that, I was merely confirming the information in that particular book.

Hopefully, your excellent research will greatly assist Hiram in finally completing the picture.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

L.F. Thank you for the photograph that is extremely exciting, I have got other irons in the fire with regards a photograph but to date little response, I E mailed George Watson's Collage Edinburgh giving his details asking if he appeared in any Group or individual photo's no answer to date, I have also spoken to Gale at the RAMC museum she was very enthusiastic and under took to search his name for a photograph in the first instance, failing that if I pay £20 they will do a full search through their records, that was only last week.

Hiram,

Hopefully, with your's and Chris' excellent research, we shall know if the two photographs I posted do indeed include Major H.R. Macintyre, D.S.O., M.C. & Bar.

Regards,

LF

[Glengarry1950]

Are the MODs in a position to merge the to threads I would be fine with that.

I now realize that the above quote, is a idiotic thought, as the other thread is a "Data Base", therefore, I have edited my post on that threat and taken out the question element of it to save any duplication.

Cheers

Hiram

[Glengarry1950]

Hi LF,

I am going to sent the Photographs to the RAMC museum, if you don't mind, and see if that can put names to the Officers and may be date and location them.

Regards
Hiram

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I am going to sent the Photographs to the RAMC museum, if you don't mind, and see if that can put names to the Officers and may be date and location them.

Hiram,

I can certainly help you with that information, both photographs were taken on the same day, 19th June, 1918 at R.A.M.C. Hesdin, which was a small village 33 miles W.NW. of Arras, in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of Northern France.

My thinking, is that these photographs were taken after Major Macintyre was awarded his Military Cross, and before he went to Italy.

Regards,

LF

[Glengarry1950]

LF,

That's fantastic, I believe you are right, as it all fits to what I have researched so far, fortunately I visited all round Ypres last years and walked all over Hill 60 and Sanctuary Wood so I have mind eye of the battle field, what I need to do is pin him down with a units war diaries, I am ok at Infantry units but Corps are a bit more difficult in pining the person down, also most Infantry diaries have been digitalised.

Italy is looking not to bad in pining the battle down in relation to his DSO citation dates, Piave this is know as the 3rd Battle of River Piave or AKA "Vittorio Veneto" not an ice cream but like the others I have to pin him to a unit to follow his movement in the battle. Work in progress.

Regards

Hiram

[Lancashire Fusilier]

it all fits to what I have researched so far,

Hiram,

Hope it helped, and please keep us updated as more information becomes available.

Regards,

LF

[clk]

Hi Hiram,

...Chris you refer to his MC card what is that? ..

It's his Military Cross index card, which I posted on the other topic. If you wanted a copy of it, it's p1698/2425 of the free to download file WO 389/17 from the National Archives. The hand annotated citations which show the date and places of the actions for which he was awarded his medal and bar can be downloaded (again free) from WO 389/4 and WO 389/5. The citations appear on p1698/2425 and p175/320 respectively. If you wanted a copy of the original notification of the bar which appeared in the London Gazette (without the citation) - it is on p45/320 of the WO 389/5 file. NB each file takes a good 5+ minutes to download.

The war diary for the 69th FA (for their time in France) is available on Ancestry. His name is recorded in the entry for 20th September 1917 - the date of his bar award. As his unit is shown in his original MC and DSO citations (together with the dates), I think that it is safe to say that he was with 69th FA on 7/8th June 1917, 20th September 1917, and 27th - 29th October 1918. Skipping through the diary, before their departure for Italy at the start of November 1917, the last entry that appears to reference him is dated 16th September 1917, which notes the award of his MC bar. Pushing that date slightly further forward, the diary seems to record in some detail the transfers and postings (in and out of men), and I didn't see him as leaving the unit by the end of the diary on 31st October 1917. That would mean that if he were to be the man in LFs photo of 20th FA from 19th June 1918, a window for his posting/transfer would seem to have to be between 1st November 1917 and 19th June 1918, with a return to the 69th FA in Italy in time for his DSO award by 27th October 1918.

As far as I'm aware the war diary for the 69th FA in Italy isn't available for download yet, and can only be viewed at/purchased from the National Archives. The 20th FA diaries don't appear to be available on Ancestry, but can be downloaded from the National Archives. Hopefully, the respective diaries would include an in/out date for him if he served with the 20th FA..

His Star Medal Roll entry shows that he first arrived in active theatre (France) on 22nd December 1914. The war diary for the 69th FA shows that they first arrived on 25th August 1915, so he must have previously served with another unit. From their diary, it would appear that he joined them on 28th January 1916 from "No 9. .C.C.S.", which ties back nicely to The University of Edinburgh Roll of Honour 1914-1919 which rflory referenced in post #2. Their diary can be downloaded from the National Archives.

His promotions/appointments should be recorded in the London Gazette. The search engine can be difficult to use - see this recent topic for some tips. He may also appear in the RAMC Journal, especially under the "Corps News" sections - again the search engine isn't that reliable.

Good luck with your research.

Regards

Chris

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Chris,

Thank you so very much for your post you have obviously spent sometime doing the search and I am grateful to you for that.

I have went through every page of the War Diaries from 1st January 1917 up until they, 69th FA went to Italy and down loaded the page where ever he or the 69th were moved to, too build a picture of his movements.

I received a nice reply from George Watson's College in Edinburgh confirming that he started school with them when he was 11 years old.

You are right I will need to spend time researching the period between Oct 1917 to June 1918 and see if it were possible for it to be him in the photograph. I am now building a very good picture of his work and service and to have him in a photograph will be the icing on the cake

.

Sorry for being so dim on the MC I only realized later on that it was his M.C. card I have now down loaded it, it is strange that none of his awards are recorded on his MIC ? I cant understand that one and I have check to make sure there is not a ghost card going about. I am currently in communications with Gale at the RAMC museum just waiting in here getting back to me on my initial enquire.

I will keep you posted on my progress.

Once again many thanks for your much appreciated help.

Kind regards

Hiram