Grenadier Guard Service Records: Arrangement & size of archive

[Justinth]

Hi all

As part of a recent FOI I have obtained the following information about the Grenadier Guards archive:

'1. Approx 200,000 plus since records are held in the Grenadier Guards archive.

2. The run begins in 1790 in the form of individual attestation papers (not complete). From 1800 onwards, service records are held.

3. Records are indexed on a card index by name, initials, number. They are then held in boxes numbered chronologically…All Service Records are held in individual files designated by number, name and initial. Boxes are numbered 1,2,3 etc and also identified by Regimental Army numbers – approximately 30 per box – on spine.

4. Officer cards, which are incomplete, start from around 1885. They are indexed by name on a card index and boxed alphabetically.'

Regards

Justin

[tullybrone]

Hi Justin,

Did you ask if any "culling" of GG records have taken place over time?

I obtained 2 sets of relatives papers from CG some years ago that were only 5 or 6 pages long. No B103, B121 conduct sheets or medical papers - essentially just the 4 page "Attestation" sheets. They were pre war regular soldiers who survived WW1.

Surprisingly my gf papers were also in Ancestry Pension files and were 30 pages long.

There was a frontispiece on my gu file from CG showing that his papers were sent to Royal Hospital Chelsea in 1930 and that at that time the file contained B103, B121 and B178 medical forms amongst others.

Regards

Steve

[Justinth]

Hi Steve

No I didn't ask but it looks like from what you have written above that it certainly happened (similarly the officers long papers have had papers removed). Some of the reasons behind the culling can be found in King's Regulations 1914 and no doubt in the later edition of King's Regulations. There may also have been space considerations, although I would say that the papers of my wife's great uncle who was in the Irish Guards during WW1 were pretty full, so maybe weeding was carried out on an as and when basis (with documents not all removed on the timetables set out in King's Regulations).

Regards

Justin

[Medaler]

I made enquiries concerning service papers for a Grenadier, but was given the impression that no records were kept. It was a long time ago now, and perhaps I applied to the wrong address.

Where should I direct my enquiries to get hold of copies?

Regards,

Mike

[Justinth]

Hi Mike

Here is the address:

Wellington Barracks
Birdcage Walk
London SW1E 6HQ

Last time I wanted a Guards record I wrote to them and received back a letter and a request for the £30 fee. They were very helpful and I did not have to wait long to receive the record.

Regards

Justin

[Coldstreamer]

Its pot luck. Some are 3 pages and some 30. Always worth a check on line too

[Medaler]

Hi Justin,

Many thanks for that - much appreciated.

Coldstreamer,

Hi, I have already checked online and found nothing, but you are quite right, and that was the first tactic. One day (but not soon - too busy on other stuff at the moment) I want to try and solve the mystery of Guards Grave, and see if I can identify some of the others buried there.

The man I am after (Vincent Evans) is one of the identified casualties at Guards Grave, and it was finding out about him that started me off on this. Several of the men buried there are unidentified, whilst others have dates of death "all over the shop." I have all sorts of theories, but not the time to roll my sleeves up and get stuck into it at the moment. For the time being however, Vincent's service record will help me out on my current mission.

Warmest regards to both of you,

Mike

[Justinth]

Just found this on the National Archives website. I wasn't aware that:

'Some of these records were destroyed by enemy bombing whilst stored in the Guards chapel during the Second World War.'

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/british-army-soldiers-discharge-and-pension-records.htm

Does anyone know the extent of the damage and whether it affected all of the Guards regiments?

Regards

Justin

[Justinth]

Pages showing the damage and large-scale loss of life in June 1944 due to a V1 (plus earlier damage to the Barracks in 1940):

http://www.westendatwar.org.uk/page_id__151_path__0p2p.aspx

http://www.guardschapelfriends.co.uk/guards-chapel-bombing.html

[Coldstreamer]

I expect the MM citations where in the chapel ..

On a serious note I have not found any major pieces missing in the Coldstream archives - Ive looked from 1880s until about 2001

Ian

Pages showing the damage and large-scale loss of life in June 1944 due to a V1 (plus earlier damage to the Barracks in 1940):

http://www.westendatwar.org.uk/page_id__151_path__0p2p.aspx

http://www.guardschapelfriends.co.uk/guards-chapel-bombing.html

Justin - all very interesting for me but dont stray too far from ww1 or we will get the thread closed

[Coldstreamer]

but might explain where the Guards machine gun corps papers are - they exist but in very scant form

I always assumed it was weeded by the regiment not by a V1