Trench art using 1918 AFM shell casings/cartridges

[trajan]

Picked these up today while on holiday - I guess 1920's workings, one is a LOT 4 the other is a LOT 6. I have NO idea what they are and so any help / advice gratefully accepted!

PS: water bottle for scale...

EDIT: Thought I'd better re-title this in view of http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=215510&hl=belgian#entry2133569 - but, yes, what DOES AFM stand for?

[Aurel Sercu]

I would say (as I said in the other Topic) : Ateliers de Fabrication Militaires.

But I am no expert at all. I'm sure there a lot on this Forum.

And hope that they will turn up soon.

Aurel

[trajan]

yes, I noted that - thanks Aurel. Just surprised that none of the artillery fanatics haven't commented and / or given a definitive opinion on the marking in the original thread yet... In other words, by putting 'shell' and 'AFM' in the title, I am hoping that this thread might just get somebody's attention!

[Aurel Sercu]

Trajan,

I can't remember where I found AFM = Ateliers de Fabrication Militaire.

But I have just found

this : http://www.ablhistoryforum.be/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4906

where I see that M stands for Munition.

(Sorry, webpage is French / Dutch)

Aurel

I've just found where I read M = Militaires.

http://www.forumeerstewereldoorlog.nl/wiki/index.php/Database_hulzen

Sorrty, Dutch only.

Scroll down to België.

Aurel

[Aurel Sercu]

Trajan,

And now I have just discovered that Gainneville (mentioned in my first link), the place where AFM was, was in Haute Normandie, France.

And this leaves me very confused.

So the shell was made in France, but maybe was Belgian ?

As I said : I am confused. :-(

Aurel

[trajan]

Thanks Aurel,

I am still on holiday / family duty so will check those pages later - Dutch somewhat less of a problem than French!

It would be nice to know what they were originally attached too - I haven't measured the damn things yet, but hopefully can do that in the next day or two. IIRC, both are marked '105L' - does that help identify them in anyway?

Julian

[trajan]

Base diameter is 12 cm. height is 39 cm

[Michael Haselgrove]

Julian,

Have a look at my response to the other "cartridge" Thread. Although I can't say what AFM stands for I think your cartridges were manufactured in America. I don't think France or Belgium marked their cartridges with LOT numbers. I think your cartridges were made to fit the French Canon de 105mle 1913 Schneider, sometimes known as the L 13 S. If you search for something like 105mm Schneider guns I am sure you will get some information.

Hope you are enjoying your holiday!

Regards,

Michael.

[trajan]

Have a look at my response to the other "cartridge" Thread. Although I can't say what AFM stands for I think your cartridges were manufactured in America. I don't think France or Belgium marked their cartridges with LOT numbers. I think your cartridges were made to fit the French Canon de 105mle 1913 Schneider, sometimes known as the L 13 S. If you search for something like 105mm Schneider guns I am sure you will get some information.

Thank you Michael!

Sadly back off holiday now and nipper-sitting while trying to get some academic work done ... but can't grumble about the blue skies and a dry 38 deg. heat instead of blue skies and a very humid 40 deg.!

[trajan]

As so often Michael, your comments inspire further search!

I have found one ref. on an auction web-site to a "75 mm x 275mm Belgian (sic) Field Gun, fired brass case, base marked 'AFM 1917'"

Also this one: "1918 WW1 Brass shell, A.F.M.~American firearms munition 10.5cm howitzer cartrige case, separated propelling charge,size 3 5/8"; tall by 4 3/4 wide", with pictures, at http://www.kijiji.ca/v-art-collectibles/windsor-area-on/ww1-brass-shell/1009788125?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

One of these photographs - downloaded from that site - shows the base with...???is that the primer / fuse?

[trajan]

Another - the Western Front Museum has: http://ator1149.home.xs4all.nl/wfm/ww1/acquisitions2004.html

2004-02-15

French 105mm howitzer cartridge case dated 1918 (AFM).

While an old e-by-gum listing for trench art at: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-trench-Art-shell-case-Belgian-dated-1917-/261492054250

has "An unusual and quite rare WW1 Belgian 75mm Brass shell case dated 1917. The shell has an even castelated top and has been decorated with a large stemmed tulip, which has been detailed as per the photos. The base is clearly stamped with AFM for the Ateliers de Fabrications Militaires factory in belgium and dated 1917.(Stress added) It stands 28cm tall and 9cm in diameter , weighs 1.2kg and has no splits or cracks and is in great shape for 97 years of age. A rare find as Belgium was mostly under german occupation during WW1 and possibly the shell was produced for German guns rather than the allies."

[Michael Haselgrove]

Hi Julian,

Well, I'm glad you are enjoying the research. I am still satisfied that these cases are of American manufacture, although I can't say if A.F.M. stands for American Firearms Manufacture. What I would be interested to know is where, if operating in Belgium in 1917/18, the A.F.M. factory was located?

Regards,

Michael.

[trajan]

And needless to say, a search for 'American Firearms Manufacture' has revealed nowt so far!

[Aurel Sercu]

"What I would be interested to know is where, if operating in Belgium in 1917/18, the A.F.M. factory was located?"

What about Gainneville Haute Normandy ? (See my posting # 5)

But again : I am confused. And yes, you want to know about Belgium. I'll see if I can (still); find out.

Aurel

[Aurel Sercu]

No, I can't.

After going through this again (sorry, in French and Dutch)

http://www.ablhistoryforum.be/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4906

Area Le Havre ?

But : was it ever located in Belgium ?

Aurel

[trajan]

IIRC, rifles for the Belgian army were being made in the US of A and at Birmingham, England, bayonets also, so IF made for the Belgians' then could have been done out of Europe.

BUT, what really surprises me is the apparent lack of knowledge / record of who was making what artillery munitions-wise in WW1 (other than government arsenals)! Bayonet and rifle maker-markings are so-well (and perhaps over-) studied by comparison!

[trajan]

...the French Canon de 105mle 1913 Schneider, sometimes known as the L 13 S. If you search for something like 105mm Schneider guns I am sure you will get some information.

Hi Michael,

I finally got around to checking on this piece and at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_105_mle_1913_Schneider, they give 105 L as an alternative French term for the gun.

I can't remember where I found AFM = Ateliers de Fabrication Militaire.

Hi Aurel,

This page: http://www.oorlogsvondsten.com/threads/68-bodemstempels-hulzen-belgie, also has ATM as Ateliers de Fabrications Militaires but no supporting source is provided...

Julian