NigelS Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 It's well known that many important 'national treasures' in London and other areas where they were at risk , where practicable, were put into safe storage during WWII; Something I'd never given much thought to until I read this Daily Telegraph (28th January) article on London's Post Office underground railway Click was as to whether measures had been taken to protect important works of art during the Great War; the article mentions in passing: Then in 1911, an electric railway with driverless trains was recommended instead, and work to construct its tunnels began soon after. During the First World War, collections from the Tate and National Portrait Gallery were stored down here for safekeeping... A quick scan through The Times archive finds no mentions of removal of artworks from galleries for storage, but that the majority of museums and galleries in London were, closed or had restricted opening - apparently for economic reasons, rather than public safety concerns - from early 1916. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 The air threat was not that great at the start of the Great war. However given what happened that is why in the second round London was so well defended and a lot of plans in place to move all the national tresures. A rare example of goverment and lesson learnt. Also the way country houses used etc. Just done a quick google scan of The Natural History Musuem. All the histroy ends in the 1880's and starts back up in the 1980's! Then a bit more searching found this gem http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/library/archives/catalogue/DServe.exe?dsqServer=placid&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqSearch=%28RefNo==%27DF%20WAR%27%29 Anyone have the file Df1200? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 The air threat was not that great at the start of the Great war. I'd agree that the real threat in 1914 was very low but the perception of a threat was much higher in some quarters as the popular imagination fuelled by novels such as H G Wells' The War in the Air (in which a fleet of Zeppelins devastates New York) anticipated mass raids by airships carrying large bombloads. This soon abated when such large raids did not materialise but I'm surprised that there was no initial clamour to protect such valuables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 28 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2014 I noticed from The Times reporting that immediately before the outbreak of the War the National Gallery had closed for about ten weeks, presumably to review & improve security, after attacks on paintings by suffragettes; that threat disappeared with the war, and I wonder if the potential risk from damage by bombing would have occurred to the directors until it actually began to happen. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be readily available information on when paintings (or which) went into storage, so its not possible to determine whether it came about on the outbreak of war or after bombing had started - I suspect probably the latter as it appears to have been 'business as usual' until 1916. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Nigel Arts Council England are involved in a number of projects connected with the outbreak of WW1, they may be able to shed some light on your query, or point you in the right direction at least: http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/who-we-are/contact-us/ TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Good thread Nigel and a very good point which I hadn't considered until now. Look forward to seeing more posts. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Agree Mr C, I missed a word or two out there! Can't remember if the book 1st blitz makes a mention of our response to the Goha planes etc. Did't the needle get bomb damage or was that WW2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Wiki it say, "On 4 September 1917, during World War I, a bomb from a German air raid landed near the needle. In commemoration of this event, the damage remains unrepaired to this day and is clearly visible in the form of shrapnel holes and gouges on the right-hand sphinx." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 The key locations? British musuem, Natural History musuem, Victoria and Albert and any royal residence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 28 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Terry thanks for the Art Council link, I'd already emailed the National Gallery to see if they have anything (incidentally, its website carries some good information on the gallery during WWII Click) NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Tate Millbank (as it was called then) and Royal Academy were also up and going in WW1 and might have sent some material away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Did't the Royal Academy help the Royal Enginners with war related projects? The soloman chap did but I'm sure I read that others got organsied into RE artist units along side stage hands and set builders? Ring any bells???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 I have a feeling they had something to do with dazzle painting on ships and decoy (dummy) tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 29 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2014 Been having a poke around in Hansard, and it appears that some precautions were taken for the protection of national treasures, if not prior to, at least shortly after the first Zeppelin bombing raids: 11 February 1915 vol 69 cc729-3090. Sir J. D. REES asked the Secretary to the Treasury if he will inform the House whether steps have been taken to safeguard the pictures in the National Gallery and in other public galleries?Mr. ACLAND Yes, Sir; various precautions, which it is obviously desirable not to specify, have been taken at all the galleries. Concern was raised about Scottish galleries in August 1916 HC Deb 09 August 1916 vol 85 cc1161-2Mr. HOGGE May I ask if my right hon. Friend will give us some assurance that in these Scottish galleries the pictures and other items of interest which are extremely valuable have been removed or are protected in a sufficient way? As he knows, there are in these galleries certain pictures which the Scottish nation would not like to lose, and, since the range of Zeppelin attacks on this country has got as far north as that, and as provision has been made in London for the protection of national treasures, will he see that the same protection is given in the case of the Scottish galleries? Mr. TENNANT Yes, Sir. I can assure my hon. Friend that these matters are not being neglected and that everything considered practical and effective has been done already. Another point of interest is that the buildings of many galleries and museums that were closed in 1916 were requisitioned and put to use for administrative purposes (note that this is 'still occupied' so gives no indication of others already vacated; although not really relevant, I've included the hotels bit as it may be of interest): HC Deb 17 November 1919 vol 121 cc665-6WLieut-Colonel Sir S. HOARE asked the First Commissioner of Works which London museums or galleries are still occupied in part or in whole by Government Departments? Sir A. MONO The following museums and galleries are still occupied by Government Departments:•Hertford House. (Staff now being removed.)•National Gallery of British Art.•Parts of the following are also occupied:•National Gallery. (Majority of staff already removed. Remainder will be removed very shortly.)•Imperial Institute. (Most of this space will be given up on 1st February, 1920.)•Victoria and Albert Museum. (Will probably be vacated by 31st March, 1920.)•British Museum. Sir S. HOARE asked the First Commissioner of Works what London hotels art still retained by Government Departments? Sir A. MOND The following hotels, so far as my Department is concerned, are still retained by Government staffs:Metropole, York, Holborn Viaduct, St. Ermin's, Horrex's, Howard, Windsor, Salisbury. It is expected that the first three will be surrendered during the next few months; of the remainder, the Windsor, Howard, and Salisbury Hotels are held on lease. St. Ermin's Hotel has been purchased by a private firm, and upon Government vacation will be used as offices. A small portion is being surrendered to the firm at an early date. Horrex's Hotel will be required for some time by the Ministry of Labour for a portion of their Appointments Branch staff. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 29 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2014 Received a very prompt, informative reply and a pdf from Nicholas Donaldson, Assistant Archivist at the National Gallery who's given me permission to post them: Thank you for your enquiry, which has been passed to the archive. The National Gallery stored pictures at Aldwych underground station from July 1917, initially planning on moving 300 works to the station but reducing this number as the storage was found to be only suitable for small pictures. I am including an attachment to this email which gives an overview of picture storage at this time together with a list of archive references. As you will see, there were various types of pictures in different locations at different times during the First World War. There does not seem to have been any storage of National Gallery pictures in Post Office tunnels, however the Tate or NPG may well have used them at some point. There are unfortunately few records of what happened at the Tate Gallery, much archive material was lost when the Tate flooded in January 1928 and so little is known about where pictures from their collection were moved. We are currently researching the National Gallery during WW1 and hope to have information on our website in the near future, in the meantime you are very welcome to visit us if you would like to see any of the archive files we hold. Do please let me know if you have any further questions, I hope the attachment proves helpful. National Gallery World War I.pdf (For details of the National Gallery Archive & how they can be contacted use this Link ) NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 Nigel Thanks for sharing that, it's very interesting. It just goes to show there are still avenues for more research in the lost corners of WW1. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 29 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2014 That's one of the things that makes the Great War so interesting, aside from the fighting & casualties; there was probably no aspect of daily life be it technology, sport, catering, academia, the arts, etc., etc that wasn't - even if only a small way- affected. The revelation of a large number of buildings having been commandeered for admin work, backs up that for each man actually fighting it was necessary to have many more - I forget just how many - working in support. Getting back on topic, again from Hansard, came across this debate Click showing concerns about the affects that closure of galleries & museums would have, not just for students, academics & the general public, but for wounded soldiers & officers, & those from the 'Dominions' who would be unlikely to get another opportunity to visit. (oddly, & as a diversion, there's also mention of a stallion - 'Night Hawk' - in this debate which is connected to earlier questions on stud duties in connection with the breeding of cavalry horses!) With a comment made about 'trivial and very often mischievous' moving pictures, these were obviously held in the same regard in some circles then, as TV is today. Although bomb damage on the home front was not that great during the Great War, the experience and lessons gained then by the museums & galleries must have been extremely valuable in helping to prepare for WW2 - its a pity that similar precautions weren't deemed necessary for WWI service records! NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 Fascinating stuff Nigel. A thoroughly enjoyable read David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 30 January , 2014 Share Posted 30 January , 2014 Fantatic stuff. Futher research and insight needed, as NigelS has mentioned it is a intresting and little looked at topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 24 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2014 The London edition of the BBC's 'Inside Out' tonight (24/02/14) included a visit to the Post Museum & archive by Lucinda Lambton, and, amongst other WW1, related items, included the story of the storage of paintings in the London PO railway tunnels with a visit to the location. available on BBC iPlayer for the next 7 days. Click A couple of other interesting facts from the programme: the Great War saw the first women 'posties' and the first introduction of post codes (in London); A temporary sorting office had to be established to sort the huge amount of mail that was going to the front and what was then the largest wooden building in the world was constructed to house it ; with wood, letters & no, no smoking in the workplace regulations plus the possibility of bombing, a minor miracle that it didn't become a pile of ashes! Click for more info NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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