old sparky Posted 9 May , 2013 Share Posted 9 May , 2013 9063 Pte Gilbert Edward Smith received his fatal wound on Redan Ridge on 1st July 1916. He had been with 1 Hampshire Regiment since that unit's arrival in France 22nd August 1914. With the greatly appreciated help of Members of GWF, I have a detailed and well documented (by an amateur's standards) record of his war until his final battle. I have seen somewhere a map of the front at Redan Ridge overlaid with unit dispositions, boundaries and objectives. Had it, lost it, can't find it! Can anyone help please? I am also very interested in his evacuation from the battlefield to his place of death in Netley Hospital. I learned about the casevac chain from another topic but can anyone point me in the right direction to identify his probable route home? This will put a fitting end to a planned family pilgrimage in October this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjustice Posted 11 May , 2013 Share Posted 11 May , 2013 Surprised this has no responses. I'm sure you won't have too many problems finding a map showing the Redan Ridge and relevant British deployment. There are hundreds, just Google it. There are many on here with a much better knowledge about casualties and evacuation chains than I (hopefully one will see the thread at some point!), but I would put money on a Redan Ridge, serious 1/7/1916 casualty going down the Somme on a barge to Abbeville/Saint-Valery. Cheers, Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sparky Posted 12 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Thank you Simon. I have found a map by Googling as you suggested. I had tried this approach before but why I had not scored beats me. Thanks also for the casevac comment. I have been trying to find info from the RAMC field Ambulance side. The use of waterway transport had just not occurred to me. .Cheers. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Noble Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Good evening Sparky. I will commence this reply by first looking at the burial of the dead. In my own opinion, a safe evacuation point or route 'out' of this sector, i.e. the Redan Ridge, would have been near the cross-roads opposite the Sucrerie Cemetery, Colincamps. 21st West Yorkshire's, Pioneers to the 4th Division are for a fact collecting dead and burying them in the latter cemetery in days following, this would suggest at least a 'safe' route out if not 'in.' If this is the case, and respect to Simon, I would presume that evacuation of the wounded in this northern sector of the battlefield has quite a few choices. Road to Mailly Maillet, onwards to Warloy, Amiens, Abbeville. Later stages of the Somme offensive would seem at least, in this 'Northern' sector, to open 'new' lines of casualty clearance, I would presume the 'product' of better lines of communication to the front for example the laying of light railways. One other point, I suppose it would depend on who he was evacuated by and to the extent of his injuries. More questions than answers Sparky I am afraid. Best wishes. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 According to the Medical Services Official History there were ADSs at Auchonvillers and a couple behind the lines near Colincamps; I suspect one of the Colincamps ones would have been the more likely. There were MDSs at Bus les Artois, Bertrancourt and Louvencourt and several CCSs around Doullens; from there by rail to Base Hospitals. I very much doubt if he would have been shifted all those miles down to the Somme barge evacuation system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjustice Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 There you go, Pete. Someone usually wakes up, eventually. Glad you found a map. If Nigel can give you the CCS details your man and his wounds might even be listed in surviving records. Cheers, Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Another way to trace the route would be to look at the burial places of those of his unit who died on 1st-5th July, as many wounded men didn't make it back as far as the base hospitals. Each unit would therefore leave a trail of graves along their line of evacuation. It's not an exact science, but an interesting project. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 Ken, that sounds a good idea; trying to go through CCS records (especially for 1st July casualties, given their number) and given that there are several CCSs in the area of the likely route, needles and haystacks spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew pugh Posted 14 May , 2013 Share Posted 14 May , 2013 Good Evening All. I read in a Book which states that some casualties from the Redan Ridge were put on motor ambulances and taken along the Serre Mailly Maillet road to the various medical centres.I beleive that the very first house as you go into Mailly was transformed into some kind of medical centre with the front of the building being sand bagged with a reinforced cellar with 2 ramps leading to the cellar, plus there was the railway from Auchonvillers which literaly ran past the end wall of the building.Surely this would have been an ideal location to have a medical centre apart from the Red Barn to get casualties away,that part of the railway would not have been damaged.I think the next stop on the railway was Colincamps. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sparky Posted 14 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2013 Many thanks for the help Gentlemen. Winnowing this information, you have shown me that the logical route, on directness alone, would be through one of the Colincamps cluster of MDSs to a CCS at Doullens and on to Abbeville, 'but' I hear you say 'what has logic got to do with it?' Gruesome though it sounds, the 'grave trail' would seem to be a good prospect and certainly one I would never have thought of. Cheers all, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Noble Posted 15 May , 2013 Share Posted 15 May , 2013 Hello Sparky. As I mentioned previously, the War Diary of the 21st WY prior to the 1st July mention that there is a concentration of efforts on road repair on the Mailly-Serre Road near the Sucrerie. Evac point possibly mentioned in my initial post. As regards following casualties in this northern sector, well, in the course of some research, I performed a bit of a 'track back' as regards West Yorkshire Regiment units with a wide search criteria 1st July -September/October/November 1916. Not to confuse matters, there seems to be a 'split,' that is the only way I can describe the evacuation route of what I have had a look at, in the area of Contay, Puchevillers just for example. Possible explanations for this but a word of caution if I may, in my own experience, this has taken a fair few years to first of all go through the cemeteries and assimilate informatiion as regards the locations of units where the man was wounded initially. Worthwhile though if you have the time and to be honest, exploring some of the backwaters, is very rewarding. Best wishes. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sparky Posted 16 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2013 Hi Chris, I was just beginning to think I had bitten off more than I could chew! I've been looking at the evacuation chain but apart from indentifying the RAMC units in 4Div (easy pickings) I have found that what you say about 'splits' beyond the ADS is true in the extreme. Quite daunting in fact. The Sucrerie seems prime candidate for the first point of evacuation and several naratives seem to confirm this. I wasn't aware however that most of the serious wounds were not recovered from No Man's Land until 5th July under a flag of truce. Sobering thought. Thanks for your input Chris. It came at a good time. Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 16 May , 2013 Share Posted 16 May , 2013 I think you will find that whatever the system/plan might have been for casevac on 1 July it simply buckled under the weight of casualties and so it would be very difficult to 'assume' anything from the planning. You might enjoy A Medicos Luck in the Great War by Colonel David Rorie RAMC. There is a map in it showing the early stages of medical evacuation in the BH area but, alas, for 56th Division and for 13th November. The ADS on that occasion in MM was in a brasserie [this was not used for this in the July attack], on the far side of the main road and on the left as you enter the bulk of the village from the church road. There is a brasserie of sorts there today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sparky Posted 16 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2013 Thanks for that Nigel. I'd had thoughts on those lines in my gloomier moments. I'm resigned to the fact that any conclusion I come to will, in the final analysis, contain a fair amount of supposition. After poring over the maps though I still like your original suggested route and will be working on that initially. Thanks and regards. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sparky Posted 19 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2013 Good evening Gentlemen, I've found a 1 Hampshire soldier who died of wounds during evacuation at 4 CCS. He is buried at Beauval. Can I deduce that 4CCS was located at Beauval at the time of his death (03.07.16)? Anyone please? Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Phillips Posted 19 May , 2013 Share Posted 19 May , 2013 4 CCS were indeed at Beauval from 15.6.15 until 8.10.16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Phillips Posted 19 May , 2013 Share Posted 19 May , 2013 There appear to be four Hampshires buried In Beauval post 1.7.16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sparky Posted 20 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2013 Thanks Dave, I'm new at this and unsure of resources but have now searched the CWGC records by regiment and found that the Hampshire's severe wounds may well have been evacuated via Colincamps, Beauval and Doullens. It does however raise the question in my mind, at what point would the decision be made to evacuate the casualty to UK hospitals? Not before the CCS, I would guess, but perhaps as late as the Base Hospitals? Can anyone help here please? Regards to all Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dales Posted 6 June , 2019 Share Posted 6 June , 2019 I’m just starting out in my quest to try and track down rough site for the death of Henry Dale 1st Hamps 1st July 1916. Don’t know which company he was in yet. His niece told a story about him being blown to bits and his brother finding his watch down the line, stopped at 9:20. If anyone can help me refine my search it might make a few ghosts happy. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 6 June , 2019 Share Posted 6 June , 2019 (edited) Hi Rob, Welcome to the Forum. 13 hours ago, Dales said: Don’t know which company he was in yet. It looks like his family hoped that he had been taken PoW, and contacted the Red Cross (giving the details that they believed). Image source - ICRC His Soldiers' Effects record says "1.7.16 Presumed dead". The date on the PoW card is most probably wrong. On that date the Bn war diary says that they had returned to billets - perhaps it reflects the first time a roll call was made having returned from the front line/assault???. Regards Chris Edited 6 June , 2019 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew pugh Posted 6 June , 2019 Share Posted 6 June , 2019 Hi Rob There was also a medical facility at Mailly Maillet called the Red House right by the railway, also another one called the Red House near La Signy Farm and of course the Red Barn in Auchonvillers. If you pm me with your address I will post you a map with all the medical facilities available in that area. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dales Posted 15 June , 2019 Share Posted 15 June , 2019 Chris/Andy, thanks so much for that help. email address rmDOTpowerATliveDOTcom I’m wondering if the reference in the old story of “his brother finding his watch”, relates to the West Yorks role in evacuating casualties and corpses on the 5th. I need to trawl through old photos for brothers name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 15 June , 2019 Admin Share Posted 15 June , 2019 Dear Dales, welcome to the forum. I have edited your email address to stop it being harvested by spammers. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dales Posted 18 June , 2019 Share Posted 18 June , 2019 Thanks Michelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted 26 February , 2020 Share Posted 26 February , 2020 This may help email me . Cant seem to send it on here ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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