In Flanders Fields by Leon Wolf 1958

[Don]

Just started this book (picked it up in a Charity Shop for €1).

There is a phrase in the book that I don't understand”I’m Westen nichts neues"

Grateful for a translation or interpetation.I'm kind of stuck on the page till I get to know what it means.

It's a really good read so far

Gerry

[Staffsyeoman]

"Im Westen nichts neues" translates literally as "In the West, nothing new". It is also the original title of "All Quiet On The Western Front"

[wandsworth]

hi gerry

from my pidgeon german

i think it means nothing new in the west

rob

[Don]

Thank you both Phil and Rob.Now I can proceed

Gerry

[hazelclark]

Just started this book (picked it up in a Charity Shop for €1).

There is a phrase in the book that I don't understand”I’m Westen nichts neues"

Grateful for a translation or interpetation.I'm kind of stuck on the page till I get to know what it means.

It's a really good read so far

Gerry

Hi Gerry,

I think that was the book I most enjoyed about third Ypres, although there has been much criticism of it on the Forum.

Hazel

[Don]

Good morning Hazel,

I have to agree with you the book is very enjoyable so far.

Gerry

[phil andrade]

While it conforms rather too much with the " Lions led by Donkeys" school, I have to say that it is the best of its genre.

Much, much more fair than the notorious Alan Clarke book.

I lost my copy several years ago, and think sufficiently highly of it to spend money on a replacement.

Phil (PJA)

[Marilyne]

A great classic.

Hazel is right..; it has been critisized and should be taken with a piece of salt - do you say that in English?? in French it means: be careful with the information given .

But I enjoyed the read!!

MM.

[seaJane]

Marilyne,

yes - taken with a pinch of salt.

That said, it was the first non-fiction book about the Great War that I ever read and is responsible, really, for the long connection of interests that led me to the forum!

sJ

PS My copy is an old Penguin/Pelican paperback and all the pages are practically falling out of the cover. It's still readable (just) but I wish someone would reprint it (or have I missed something?)

Edited 18 April , 2013 by seaJane

[peterhogg]

It was one of the first books I read about the Great War and I enjoyed it at the time. I agree with the comments above. For example, I believe it includes the yarn about the General weeping as he was driven closer to the front, discovering for the first time, supposedly, the appalling conditions of the battlefield. Pure fiction.

[Don]

I have finished the book; in fact I couldn’t put it down. A lot to take in and ponder about.

The Great War is a learning curve for me particularly that I recently discovered I had 5 close relatives who participated in it.

The book gave me an insight into the horrors of the conflict and the dreadful loss of Men.

I have more to research and lots more to read.

One thing that interested me was the mention of Father Willie Doyle.

He gave my Grandfather a green scapular and he wore it till the day he died.

Gerry

[Tom Morgan]

A great book. I still have my copy which I bought as a teenager on 4th August, 1964 - the 50th anniversary of Britain's entry into the war.

Tom

[David Filsell]

I think that most historians now consider it dated - I believe written - and well written - before war diaries became available.

[hazelclark]

I have finished the book; in fact I couldn’t put it down. A lot to take in and ponder about.

The Great War is a learning curve for me particularly that I recently discovered I had 5 close relatives who participated in it.

The book gave me an insight into the horrors of the conflict and the dreadful loss of Men.

I have more to research and lots more to read.

One thing that interested me was the mention of Father Willie Doyle.

He gave my Grandfather a green scapular and he wore it till the day he died.

Gerry

i am glad you found a connection. It makes some of those older books more meaningfuI that they are closer to the battle, even if they could not take advantage of data now available.

Hazel

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Probably no longer acceptable to today's 'Revisionists' but still one of the best commentaries on 3rd Ypres since the last War. Maybe best to read it alongside John Terraine's 'Road to Passchendaele'

[geraint]

Pure fiction.

Was it? How do you know?

[peterhogg]

Hi Geraint,

There is an interesting analysis of the story in Fussel's Great War and Modern Memory. Fussel makes the point that it does not have any ring of truth. I believe the account has been sourced to Liddell-Hart's private papers but that source has never been the subject of inquiry. I will dig out some material this evening!

[geraint]

Hi Connor

But if Liddell-Hart witnessed it why should we today be disparaging about it? Men died at 3rd Ypres. Not fiction. Fact

[hazelclark]

I have seen this incident mentioned in several books, one of which is Groom's "A Storm in Flanders, although I don't remember what the original reference was. I think the general involved was Kiggell A similar incident is mentioned somewhere or other with respect to the German Spring Offensive in 1918. I am quite sure there was more than one general who was upset by the appearance of his decimated regiments returning from battles.

Hazel

[Marilyne]

Hi Geraint,

There is an interesting analysis of the story in Fussel's Great War and Modern Memory. Fussel makes the point that it does not have any ring of truth. I believe the account has been sourced to Liddell-Hart's private papers but that source has never been the subject of inquiry. I will dig out some material this evening!

if i might add my piece on this... Fussell's book is not really an example of academic study also!! So I wouldn't take everything in GW&MM for granted. to be honest, I was really dissapointed by that book. After all I went through to get it, to find someting so poorly written...

just my point of view

MM.

[Stoppage Drill]

It was the book that started my interest in the GW too, 55 years ago ! It was of it's time and it is not fair to be too critical in times when so much more information has become available. Wolff is American too, so full marks to him for writing about a British Empire battle.

Re the Kiggell thing - my recollection is that, rather than weeping he asked "Did we really send men to fight in this ?" to whicdh the reply from his guide was "It's worse further up."

Come to think of it, one of the other great books of the period about the GW was by an American too - Barbara Tuchman, "Guns of August" (confusingly retitled as "August 1914.") Published 1962.

It is said (love that phrase!) that JFK was much influenced by the descriptions in it of the apparently unstoppable descent into war in 1914. He was handling the Cuban Missile Crisis at the time.

[peterhogg]

Okay, look the story is not true. It takes little to consider the details to realize it makes no sense. It's the usual pap that lions led by donkeys feast upon. The fact it is repeated in various books does not make it true.

Someone, find the source and tell me who said this and where and when. Good luck.... It's not true.

[peterhogg]

It was the book that started my interest in the GW too, 55 years ago ! It was of it's time and it is not fair to be too critical in times when so much more information has become available. Wolff is American too, so full marks to him for writing about a British Empire battle.

Re the Kiggell thing - my recollection is that, rather than weeping he asked "Did we really send men to fight in this ?" to whicdh the reply from his guide was "It's worse further up."

Come to think of it, one of the other great books of the period about the GW was by an American too - Barbara Tuchman, "Guns of August" (confusingly retitled as "August 1914.") Published 1962.

It is said (love that phrase!) that JFK was much influenced by the descriptions in it of the apparently unstoppable descent into war in 1914. He was handling the Cuban Missile Crisis at the time.

Again, it is a much repeated story and Liddell-Hart did not claim to witness the event---obviously he did not since he was neither the driver nor the general. When you consider the details of the story, it simply makes no sense. But people of a certain childish emotional bent seem to love it and so it is repeated ad nauseum.

[Theletterwriter]

In Flanders Field and Martin Middlebrook’s First Day on the Somme were the two books that really fired my interest in the First World War in the early 1970’s. One major point that has always stuck in my mind about In Flanders Field was the photograph on the cover of the book showing British soldiers trying to move a gun limber (I think) through the morass. The soldier in the foreground, who was knee deep in mud, was facing the camera and had a look of total disgust on his face. An extremely powerful photograph.

The description “Lions led by Donkeys” has never sat easily with me and a number of generals, particularly Haig, have been unfairly criticised. However, like us all, Haig was not without his faults. The Generals were of their time i.e. late Victorian and to try and adapt to the concept of modern warfare must have been extremely difficult. Unfortunately, their learning curve to the successes of 1918 resulted, in my opinion, in a lot of needless casualties in the previous years.

I cannot definitively say that certain phrases such as “Did we really send men to fight in this ..” are accurate or not. I was not there and neither were any other forums members. As I am taking an opposite stance to the “pure fiction” camp in this instance, does this make me a person of a certain childish emotional bent? Whatever that is supposed to mean.

One point should be made : if the General Staff knew of the ground conditions during the 3^rd. Battle of Ypres and continued to send men into battle, that is indefensible. If you disagree, as is your right, source the photograph and look at the face of the soldier.

Douglas

[Stoppage Drill]

Letterwriter, I think it was the famous stretcher bearer photo.