docchippy Posted 31 August , 2004 Share Posted 31 August , 2004 Am currently reading auto biog Alan Thomas officer of 6 Royal West Kent Regiment, 1916-1918. He mentions the brigade HQ, following after tank attacks around Flesquieres in November 1917. Quote: "We passed through the village of Flesquieres and along a sunken road leading to a farmhouse known as Pam Pam Farm and situated a few hundred yards behind Lateau wood - over five miles in front of Gonnelieu [jumping off point]. Just before reaching the farmhouse we turned off to te right and were led to a deep and spacious dugout which had housed a German command. This dugout became brigade headquaters" Any chance of identifying the location on a trench map? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 31 August , 2004 Share Posted 31 August , 2004 I don't have a trench map to hand, but you can find this location on a modern day roadmap. Look at the road running south from Cambrai, through Les Rues Vertes. It branches at Bonavis farm. One road runs off SW past La Vacquerie towards the motorway. The other branches off SE towards Saint-Quentin. At or near this fork in the road are four important locations. The large wood on the east side of the road is Lateau Wood. Just north of that, on the west side of the road is Le Quennet Farm. In the southern cleft of the fork right on the junction is Bonavis Farm. Across the road to the NW of Bonavis Farm, just a hundred yards off the road, is Pam Pam Farm. British attacks came from the direction of La Vacquerie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docchippy Posted 31 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2004 Thanks Chris, I have now managed locate it on the 1:100000 map. Any members with more info or trench maps? Thomas' auto biog- interesting for specifics on actions of 6th Royal West Kent oct 16-Nov 17. However although written in 1960s conveys the impressionability of this ypung public school boy and also the distance that social class kept form him and his men. What some of the older men under his command thought, would be interesting to know. Also a v.emotional almost -homo-erotic? affection for colleague Lt Gilbert Carre KIA 1917. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 3 September , 2004 Share Posted 3 September , 2004 docchippy, I think your man seems to be a little incorrect with his memory.....6 RWK were indeed near Pam Pam farm, which is still there, although rebuilt, but it is very unlikely and improbable that they went through Flesquieres, (from Monchy the marched from Peronne through Hautallaines, Moislains, Manancourt, Fins, Sorel and Heudecourt ) and there is not a sunken road to the site, it is on top of a flat plateau. If you still want maps of the area, I can let you have both British and German for the sector attacked by 6 RWK/12 Div....(but not till next Weds approx) the command posts are still there if you decide to visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham-McAdam Posted 3 September , 2004 Share Posted 3 September , 2004 Pam Pam farm was a restaurant for the last ten years or so - must have had great views over the Cambrai battlefield in every direction - but they had a catastrophic fire last summer and, I think, is still sitting looking desolate, though I must confess I didn't look towards it as I drove past a couple of weeks ago - too busy looking at the view from Bonavis, and looking out for the bits of Hindenburg concrete on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isanders Posted 13 September , 2004 Share Posted 13 September , 2004 Neil, I have been doing some research on this action, as I have a great Uncle who died in the counterattack on 30th Nov. Most of what I have is on this link The Battle of Lateau Wood. There's a couple of trench maps on this helpfully supplied by forum members. Can u give me some more info in the book you mention? Was Alan Thomas involved in this action? All the best Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 13 September , 2004 Share Posted 13 September , 2004 hello docchippy. here is German map of sector. The bunkers, Command posts etc are all still there, but some are a bit hard to find, just the concrete roof visible at ground level, with a bit of coarse grass around where the farmer cannot plough. The one marked KTK Nord (kampf-truppen-kommandeur, or commander of front troops north) is a likely contender for the one you enquired about. Hope this is of use to you, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docchippy Posted 14 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 14 September , 2004 Top stuff chaps. Just been reading George Coppard's account of Cambrai. he was within yards of this position and briefly reported to dawson ltCol of 6 RWKent on state of their flank defences on 1st night of battle. Funny how these fragments of literature ovelap in some battalions/regts yet others have nothing published in this manner! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isanders Posted 25 January , 2007 Share Posted 25 January , 2007 docchippy, I think your man seems to be a little incorrect with his memory.....6 RWK were indeed near Pam Pam farm, which is still there, although rebuilt, but it is very unlikely and improbable that they went through Flesquieres, (from Monchy the marched from Peronne through Hautallaines, Moislains, Manancourt, Fins, Sorel and Heudecourt ) and there is not a sunken road to the site, it is on top of a flat plateau. If you still want maps of the area, I can let you have both British and German for the sector attacked by 6 RWK/12 Div....(but not till next Weds approx) the command posts are still there if you decide to visit. Although Thomas is incorrect about Flesquieres there is a slightly sunken lane leading to Pam Pam Farm from La Vacquerie away to the right of it are a number of bunkers which could have well have been 37th Bde HQ. This shows the sunken lane looking east, with Pam Pam Farm on right and Lateau Wood behind, complete with shell canister in foreground. The shows the top of the same lane looking westwards with Bleak House on the left. This shows one of the possible bunkers for either Brigade or 6th RWK battalion HQ. Pam Pam on right, Lateau Wood behind, and Le Quesnet Farm on left. More Photos Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docchippy Posted 25 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2007 Thanks for the follow up on 6RWK, looks like you have i'd the spot. Also some fantastic photos on your website, where is the shell marked ground? Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isanders Posted 25 January , 2007 Share Posted 25 January , 2007 It's just south of Masnieres. I had a fascinating time following in the footsteps of the West Kents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 25 January , 2007 Share Posted 25 January , 2007 I don't have a trench map to hand. I do, this one is 57CSE2 for 30th Sept 1917, edition 3A There is a bunker marked on the trench system, just to the right. the little square blob! There are also bunkers clearly visible on the aerial photo. I have marked them exactly to display as blue blobs on the trench map. I will add the aerial photo next post. Hope that helps Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 25 January , 2007 Share Posted 25 January , 2007 On this one you can see the bunkers, and i have displaced the blue marks slightly to the right so that you can. These bunkers are marked on the trench map above. All the best Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 25 January , 2007 Share Posted 25 January , 2007 A closer shot of marked bunkers Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 26 January , 2007 Share Posted 26 January , 2007 here's a German map of the sector......I seem to remember working out a while ago that the 12 Div established Brigade HQ at the bunker marked KTK Nord (Kampf Truppen Kommandeur), it is still there, Regards, Peter. PS you may find the scale is difficult to match with British maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 26 January , 2007 Share Posted 26 January , 2007 This may be clearer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfl59 Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 Now with Mappy and IGN aerial photo you can zoom clearly, a great free tool ;-) http://www8.mappy.com/sidCS+HRqQYyd7Mn21w/...sl=4&gb=air And on Google maps you can see two big trace of trench on the right of the wood http://maps.google.fr/maps?f=q&hl=fr&a...&iwloc=addr I'm living in France near Cambrai, so if you want something... JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isanders Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 JF, Thanks for google france link, you can also make out the brown line to the north of Pam Pam Farm. I agree the IGn site is great, but it looks like your link expired. When I visited in November I was looking for the location of a German cemetery just to the south of Masnieres, near the Fermes Des Escart crossroads. It's where the RWK dead were buried after the 30th November attack. the people at Bonavis Farm and Le Quesnet had not heard of it, and unfortunately there was noone at Fermes Des Escartes to ask. Does anyone have either trench maps covering this area or any idea of the location? Or next time your in the area JF could you make some enquiries? Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfl59 Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 This is the good link : http://www4.mappy.com/?lang=en You choose "map" after choose "place" then you type "bonavis" for example and country "france" after that on the right click on "aerial photo" and OK to finish. Now you can zoom, it's clear and make a full screen. Thanks Mappy and IGN of course :-)) JF JF, Thanks for google france link, you can also make out the brown line to the north of Pam Pam Farm. I agree the IGn site is great, but it looks like your link expired. When I visited in November I was looking for the location of a German cemetery just to the south of Masnieres, near the Fermes Des Escart crossroads. It's where the RWK dead were buried after the 30th November attack. the people at Bonavis Farm and Le Quesnet had not heard of it, and unfortunately there was noone at Fermes Des Escartes to ask. Does anyone have either trench maps covering this area or any idea of the location? Or next time your in the area JF could you make some enquiries? Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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