Footage of German trenches Somme shelled

[Skipman]

From Critical Past German trenches shelled in Somme, France.

You may have seen this before. I just wondered where this film was shot. Who ever took it seems well above the battlefield.

Mike

[phil andrade]

At the risk of spoiling the party, I must say that my first thought was that this is one of those very realistic training programmes, or a staged re-enactment.

Phil (PJA)

[Guest]

At the risk of spoiling the party, I must say that my first thought was that this is one of those very realistic training programmes, or a staged re-enactment.

Phil (PJA)

My first thoughts were 'authentic' but happy to be proved wrong. If staged, it's a very large training area?

Mike

[17107BM]

I have not seen it before.

Amazing footage, troops look to be caught in shell fire whilst in the attack.

It would be nice to get a location.

Thanks for posting.

Cheers.

[phil andrade]

So many famous photographic depictions of the war have turned out to be staged that I might well have failed to do this one justice, and assumed that it was either a training excercise or a reconstruction.. It's certainly a dramatic scene, and one must wonder why - if it's authentic battlefield footage - it hasn't been more widely viewed.

Phil (PJA)

[T8HANTS]

I always suspect footage where the camera is in a higher position than the action.

I also would have thought that if you had a viewing platform or O.P. that high the opposition would shell it to pieces.

G

[derekspiers]

The terrain looks rather too flat for the Somme battle areas.

[phil andrade]

It even occurred to me that it might be a more far flung vantage point of filming for that rather powerful German film WESTFRONT 1918 ( 1930).

I'm wobbling a bit on this one, anxious not to fall into the trap of being duped by synthetic scenes or training film ; but troubled by the prospect of it being authentic.

It's almost too grand and clear to be actual battle : if it's real, then, my goodness, what a find !

Where's it been for nearly a century ?

Phil (PJA)

[keithmroberts]

The men in the film moved at a considerable speed. The other clips showing British troops appear to be straight from "The Battle of the Somme", It would be good to know the origins of this one. The terrain does look very level, so like others I am not at all sure about its authenticity, but I am so many miles away from expertise that my doubts are of little value.

Keith

[phil andrade]

Too panoramic, too contrived, smacks of a set up scene.

I would like to be wrong.

Phil (PJA)

[David B]

Maybe I have missed the point, but I was under the impression that when troops advanced, they advanced at a

walking pace. These men were going at a fast run (if authentic so would I) which makes me think that the whoe

scene is staged or training.

[IRC Kevin]

If this was genuine, I'd expect some of the shells to be shrapnel, but all these are H.E.

[high wood]

I always suspect footage where the camera is in a higher position than the action.

I entirely agree. Conversely, the scene in Dr Strangelove where the U.S. Army recaptures the airbase looks like authentic action footage precisely because it is filmed as if the cameraman was under fire, yet is obviously entirely staged.

[T8HANTS]

I couldn't agree more the recapture of the airbase in Dr S. is a superb bit of cinema. Also in the footage above all the shell burst are whitish smoke which is often an indication of the use of blackpowder charges rather than H.E.. Most seem to be puffballs rather than a buried shell, where is the the muck and the mud.

G

[slick63]

Looks odd, like they are filming from some kind of building ? The first few and last few frames seem to show some kind of structure (window frame ?) where the camera is mounted. I`m not sure about the things which look like hedges either, which seem to be in the middle of the battlefield. If it was genuine then I would expect the troops to be moving away from the camera, not from left to right.

[roel22]

I'd say it's staged. The cameraposition is completely unrealistic, unless the cameraman has an death wish. At 02:17, while the camera is panning to the left, what looks to be a cap shows up. Probably worn by a member of the cameracrew. Another hint this footage was shot post-war.

Roel

[James]

Has anyone been able to see a close up of the 'advancing soldiers'?

The whole thing looks very staged, in addition to above, very nice gaps in the wire and a lack of casualties.

[Robert Dunlop]

It looks like a live-firing exercise. The troops look like German infantry, late-war, moving with the characteristic style and speed of trained Sturmtruppen. The men are carrying their rifles (perhaps carbines) low down with the right hand but there are no great coats that would have been likely if the infantry were French ('Somme' extended south of the British lines but still the terrain doesn't look quite right). There is no evidence of Flammenwerfer. Most of the film appears to have to shot within some sort of observation post, with a concrete sill but a very large 'window'. There seems to be a second snippet, roughly 3 minutes in, that shows the 'action' at what looks like ground-level.

I don't know how large the training areas were but from other examples and snippets that I have read, the size of the area would seem entirely in keeping with this.

Robert

[martin_sole]

At about 01:57 the shellbursts seem to occur right in the middle of the troops to the back of frame. I'm not sure what kind of training pyrotechnics would be available at that time but the effects are pretty spectacular. If it's live fire, would there not be a degree of H&S even back then?

The camera certainly seems high, but we only see a limited amount of terrain in the footage so the elevation may be natural. It's possible that the camera viewpoint is on some sort of ridge or bunker or in an existing, partially wrecked building?

I'm also puzzled by the troops moving across frame rather than away from the camera but we've seen something very similar from the genuine battle footage in the Somme film.

That said, my gut feeling is also that it's a staged event.

[James]

Robert - my thoughts were that it's German infantry as you stated hence my question whether anyone has been able to view the soldiers close up.

The speed and style of movement would tie in with that as opposed to Allied Soldiers.

Conclusion German late war training film of an exercise.

[Guest]

I have found another copy of this from FootageFarm uploaded on YouTube

6:10 in the caption says " A Barrage on the German Front Line at Somme France (date obscured 1916?)

At 6:20 " Photographed by a German photographer "

The text is

" Published on Jun 13, 2013

If you wish to acquire broadcast quality material of this reel or want to know more about our Public Domain collection, contact us at info@footagefarm.co.uk

WWI - German War Film 1914 - 1918 Reel 2

German troops advance in forest. Supply trains enter an East Prussian town. French infantry rushing to defend a Belgian town against a German attack. Three German soldiers play piano in street. German soldiers load refugees into wagon; refugees on road pushing cartwheels with belongings. German railroad gun; French graffiti?: "La Grosse Bertha". German trenches at Somme, France, are shelled and troops are seen running across field.

05:30:09 German Railway motor car: automobile on railway tracks.

Destruction at Fort Conde, near Soissons; field hospital in front of wrecked manor house. Cavalry units pursue the fleeing French.

WW1 "

Mike

[jhill]

I too feel this was filmed during an exercise; not only because of the elevation of the camera, but also that it was filmed from the receiving end of the attack. Cameramen rarely would have known ahead of time that an attack was coming and could place their gear in position.

On the other hand, much of the stuff we see is quite realistic. Consider these other film clips from the British side of the line:

http://www3.nfb.ca/includes/player/player_full.php?_onfplr_sel=viewfull&film=id=538488&formats=default&speeds=default&use_cc=no&use_dv=no&f=flash&t=normal&s=hv&pm=rtmp%3A%2F%2Fflash.nfb.ca%2FWW1%2Ffilms%2Fhv%2F54569.flv&w=640&h=512&c=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.onf.ca%2Fenclasse%2Fgrandeguerre%2Ffr%2Fplayer%2Fplayer.css&pp=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.onf.ca%2Fenclasse%2Fgrandeguerre%2Ffr%2Fplayer%2Fplayer_full.swf&cn=grandeguerre&ct=2500000&ttl=Images+d%27une+guerre+oubli%E9e&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.nfb.ca%2Fincludes%2Fplayer%2F&lg=fr&ss=&pmvroot=%2Fvar%2Fnfb%2Fapache%2Fhtdocs%2Fphplib%2F&pmvurl=grandeguerre%2F&pmvsid=%2Fstats%2F&pmvpage=17&pmvglob=1

This is entitled "Battle of Arras 7" from the National Film Board site. It is a mishmash of stuff mostly of artillery fire. Watch the two clips of supposed trench raids: the first, about four minutes in by the South Africans, and the second, about ten minutes in, by the Cameronians. Especially in the second bit we see what I expect is the box barrage in the distance, followed by the defensive barrage in the foreground. The camera seems to be not far behind the line, and not too high.

As an aside, note that filming incoming artillery was tricky. One could not just leave the camera running in hope that a shell would explode in front of it. Usually we see the smoke of the explosion after the cameraman has turned it on after the initial explosion.

Or so it seems to me.