Help with Identifying WWI (?) uniforms - Cameronians - Scottish Rifles

[chelleyp]

Hi

I am not sure these are WWI (could be earlier) but hopefully someone here will be able to tell me.

As far as I know these photos are of a Scottish ancestor (maybe brothers/maybe same bloke?) but I am hoping an ID on the uniform will assist me to ID them.

Anything you can tell me on country, regiment, rank would be great.

Many thanks and I look forward to your replies.

Chelley

Photo 1.

"Corpl George Wallace

7th Scot Rifles"

and in different handwriting is

"16021 (poss. 16031)

Private Jas Wallace

2 Bat Scots Guards

Left Flank Coy, 4th Platoon

B (UNREADABLE), France"

Photo 2.

"Sec Lieut 7th Scot Rifles, Matthew Wallace, Military Hospital, Bangour nr Edinburgh"

[Old Owl]

Hi Chelley,

This is the Cameronians or Scottish Rifles circa WW1. He is wearing Corporals Stripes on the first photo and Sergeants stripes on the second photo which also shows his Cameronians collars and black 'rifles' buttons.

I believe that this regiment recruited from the Glasgow area.

Robert

[chelleyp]

Wonderful - thanks Robert -

looks like I am on the right track with the Scottish part then.

[Old Owl]

Wonderful - thanks Robert -

looks like I am on the right track with the Scottish part then.

If you have a full name, then it may be possible to fill in a few gaps quite quickly.

[Steven Broomfield]

Interesting to see collar dogs on an o.r.'s uniform.

IIRC, Forum member Barrie Duncan is the man for Cameronans stuff - I think the user name is barrieduncan, so a PM to him might be worth a try.

[gordon92]

Hi Chelley,

This is the Cameronians or Scottish Rifles circa WW1. He is wearing Corporals Stripes on the first photo and Sergeants stripes on the second photo which also shows his Cameronians collars and black 'rifles' buttons.

I believe that this regiment recruited from the Glasgow area.

Robert

The Cameronians (SR) recruited in Lanarkshire as well as Glasgow. Their depot was in Hamilton.

[Muerrisch]

Can anyone date the sergeant photo please. if wartime the collars are interesting.

[tipperary]

He appears to be wearing what i presume to be mourning ribbon in the two pictures,john

[7t2ndswinger]

Can anyone date the sergeant photo please. if wartime the collars are interesting.

The collar is an unknown pattern too. To paraphrase Colin Churchill (Fig.727 in his book) the RHQ maintains these are not collars badges with no alternative explanation but Churchill offers the suggestion they may have been worn by the 5th Battalion. Aside from the blackened one illustrated in the book I've only ever seen the one I have which is nickel or silvered.

[chelleyp]

Thank you for all your interesting replies.

I should have done this with my original post but I have now dug out the original post cards and on the back is written in pencil (to the best I can decipher)

Photo 1.

"Corpl George Wallace

7th Scot Rifles"

and in different handwriting is

"16021 (poss. 16031)

Private Jas Wallace

2 Bat Scots Guards

Left Flank Coy, 4th Platoon

B (UNREADABLE), France"

Photo 2.

"Sec Lieut 7th Scot Rifles, Matthew Wallace, Military Hospital, Bangour nr Edinburgh"

I have looked on Ancestry at the war records there but have not found a match to date.

Thanks everyone

Chelley

[sbrown]

Hi Chelley,

I have the 1910 almanac of The 7th Scottish Rifles and there is an entry for a 540 Pte M. Wallace, residing at 19 Keir Street, Pollockshields, Glasgow. Have cross referenced with ancestry and he has a medal index card, his rank is given as Sjt and 2nd Lieut. I think this must be your man. He was entitled to the 1914/15 star trio and also the S.W.B. which might explain being in the Military Hospital. Also as an Officer his papers might be at the National Archives. Just checked ancestry and Lieut Wallace's S.W.B. entry is there, badge number B13564.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Stevie.

[chelleyp]

Thanks so much Stevie for looking that up for me - that's wonderful news and has given me lots to work from.

Can't thank you enough

Cheers

Chelley

Edited to add I just found James' record too (16021) so they are brothers, not one bloke!

[barrieduncan]

Late to this one, sincere apologies. Re the collar doges, I have seen a few pics of Territorials, esp 7th and 8th Battalion, wearing collar dogs in 1914-1915 photos taken prior to embarkation. The 8th Bn in particular seem to have an affinity with collar badges, at all ranks (certainly NCO and above) by about 1914-15.

[Guest jimhc]

i have some info on Matthew wallace plus his i have his dog tags i work in a scrap merchants and metal and a red fiber tag came in.

540

M Wallace

7th scots rifles

13564

i will have a look at them tomorrow and if i have missed anything i will post it.

[chelleyp]

That's wonderful - can you take a photo of what you have and post it on line here please?

[Guest jimhc]

I will so. You will might have to wait a day or two as im not the best with a computer but i shall be as quick as i can.

[chelleyp]

No problem - and Thank you !

[MBrockway]

The Cameronians (SR) recruited in Lanarkshire as well as Glasgow. Their depot was in Hamilton.

Hope this helps ...

[chelleyp]

Here is what JIMHC found - unbelievable!

Can someone confirm these would have belonged to my Matthew?

thanks,

Chelley

[gordon92]

Hope this helps ...

Great map! Would there be a way of obtaining the full version?

[FROGSMILE]

Here is what JIMHC found - unbelievable!

Can someone confirm these would have belonged to my Matthew?

thanks,

Chelley

They certainly match with the man identified by Stevie, as the regimental number matches, Chelley. At that time a man changed numbers each time he moved unit.

[FROGSMILE]

Late to this one, sincere apologies. Re the collar doges, I have seen a few pics of Territorials, esp 7th and 8th Battalion, wearing collar dogs in 1914-1915 photos taken prior to embarkation. The 8th Bn in particular seem to have an affinity with collar badges, at all ranks (certainly NCO and above) by about 1914-15.

It's interesting that Churchill states that the Cameronians RHQ and Museum denied that the miniature cap badge style of insignia being worn by the sergeant in this thread was ever worn as a collar badge.