OTC in the Great War

[ddycher]

All

I had originally believed that Cadet Corps pre-Haldane days were transferred to the OTC in 1908 and were no longer affiliated to TF battalions. However the Army Lists during the war show a growing number of Cadet Corps being affiliated to the TF battalions as the war progressed and these corps are not mentioned in the OTC ref's I have.

Does anyone have any views or insights ?

Regards

Dave

[ddycher]

Starting to be able to answer my own question I think. The old attached Cadet Corps appear to have become units in either :

1. OTC (Senior Division)

2. OTC (Junior Division)

3. Territorial Force Cadet Corps

1. & 2. lost their affiliation. 3. I am still working on as far as the Devons goes.

The TF Cadet Corps role in the Great War is new to me. I have now come across ref's to Ray Westlake's "A register of Territorial Force cadet units, 1910-1922" but have not as yet obtained a copy.

Regards

Dave

[David Porter]

Dave,

According to Fisher's "History of Somerset Territorial Units" it was not until the Special Army Order of May 21, 1910 was issued that conditions under which Cadet Units could be raised and recognised was outlined. Public Schools Cadet Units became OTC, Junior Division, and the "Cadet Force" was confined to Cadet Corps not associated with schools or religious bodies. Later various Lads' Brigades were invited to apply for recognition as Cadets and receive Government assistance of £5 per Cadet Company of 30 Cadets per annum. The first Cadet Corps recognised in Somerset were the 1st and 2nd Bath and Wells Cadet Battalions Church Lads' Brigade on August 15, 1912.

At the outbreak of war so many schools wished to form Officers' Training Corps that after a few months the Army Council would not accept any more. They were however allowed to form Cadet Corps to be recognised by Territorial Associations. The first of these in Somerset was Queen's College (Taunton) Cadet Battalion which was accepted on May 7, 1915. Then there was the Wedmore Cadet Corps recognised on July 31, 1915 which was the first organised outside a school and not associated with a religious body. It was composed of village boys employed on the farms.

One of the most remarkable Cadet Units ever raised in Somerset was at the special request of the War Office on June 10, 1916. It was named the Severn Cadet Corps and consisted of 115 boy employees of the Asiatic Petroleum Company. They were sent to France, and with headquarters in Rouen the Cadets were employed as working parties in connection with their trades. They were clothed and equipped by the War Office. In 1917 those classified in Category "A" and who were over 18 were released for service in fighting units whilst other boys were enrolled to take their place. After the war a large number of Cadet Units were disbanded almost immediately. Fisher's book contains a list of those still in existence in Somerset in 1923, one of which was recognised in 1922 and another was about to be formed.

Also found this http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1910/jul/19/territorial-force-cadet-corps

[ddycher]

David

Had spent most of the day yesterday trying to track down ref's to the date of the Army Order so very helpful - thank you.

In Somerset were these units typically affiliated / attached to specific TF battalions or just to the County Association ? In the case of Devon I can see the attachments growing through the war. Not clear as yet on what this actually meant and if boys from the Cadets did actually transfer to the TF battalions they were attached to on coming of age or whether this was all swept away by conscription.

Regards

Dave

[ddycher]

David

Had never heard of it before but after reading your response picked this up on another thread.

 

Regards

Dave

[David Porter]

I remember seeing that PETROL thread, thanks for pointing out the connection - ties in neatly.

Fisher's book is not specific on affiliation but it is clear that some fed the 4th or 5th Somerset Light Infantry as they are named as such.

If I get time I will post the 1923 listing here to show the mixture.

[ddycher]

Thanks David

Sorry slow responding - been away with work this week.

Regards

Dave

[conijoni]

^{The best information for cadets is 'The Cadet List'. The British Library has a full set of them.}

[ddycher]

Thanks

Will try to find out more.

Regards

Dave

[Archie1]

I have an MC to an officer of the 9/Royal Fusiliers.The memorial book of Queens University, Belfast has his details (allbeit incorrect regt) & states he served in the OTC from 1910-12,however the university have no record of my man ever being a student there.Infact on the 1911 census he is described as a bank clerk. He was attested into the 10th Bn on the outbreak of war as a Private but recieved a temporary wartime commission a month later.

How did OTC's work? Could this be correct that he was in the OTC but not at the university?

Many Thanks

Mark

[ddycher]

Mark

The best overview I know is "The OTC and the Great War" which can be downloaded here :

http://archive.org/search.php?query=O.T.C%20great%20war

It does cite members from Belfast University in the war years but no pre-war members. The following are named as casualties :

J. H. Buchanak, R. Ir. Fus. ;

C. R. Crymble, R. Ir. Fus. ;

V. T. T. Rea R.Ir.Rif. ;

A. J. Millar, R. Ir. Fus. ;

A. W. Bourke, R. Ir. Fus.

Do you have a name and I will try to locate in the ref's I have.

Regards

Dave

[Archie1]

Hi Dave,

He was Theophillius Legate CALWELL. Born 1892 died 7th Oct 1916. 9/Royal Fusiliers.

Thank you for your help

Regards

Mark

[Archie1]

Dave ,

He is mentioned in the OTC book you suggested under Queens University Belfast.

Thanks

Mark

[ddycher]

Mark

Sorry could not find any refs to him in any other material I have outside his MM in the Gazette.

Regards

Dave

[rflory]

The roll of officers in The OTC and the Great War was republished in paper covers by Tom Donovan Publishing as The O.T.C. Roll in 1989. There is also a book, Record of War Service 1914-1918. Officers Training Corps (Junior Division) that lists the war services of officers and staff of public school Junior OTCs. Many of these officers served overseas prior to, or after, their service with public school OTCs. A sample page is shown below.

Gunner 1

[JulianB]

I certainly found 'The OTC and the Great War' very useful.

By a coincidence my grandfather was standing next to its author Lt-Col Haig-Brown when he, H-B, was killed on 25-3-1918 as they were pulling back from the kaiserschlacht !

[ddycher]

All

My copy of the Ray Westlakes "A Register of Territorial Force Cadet Units 1910~1922" finally arrived. I now have details of affiliation and the Army Orders recognising units as they were formed. It also confirms that Cadets moved to the TF on attaining the minimum age of enlistment for the TF.

Would be interesting to get a better sense of how close the cadet units actually were to the affiliated TF unit. To date I have never seen anything on any attestation papers etc showing previous membership of an affiliated cadet unit. Has anyone else ?

Regards

Dave

[Timbob1001]

Hi Dave - anything in Westlake's Book on the Wedmore Cadet Corps?

Thanks

Tim

[ddycher]

Tim

Entry reads as follows :

Recognised. 31.7.15 Somerset Territorial Force Association under Army Order AO 342/1915 and affilliated to 4h Bn Somerset Light Infantry.

Redesignated "Sexeys" School (Blackford) Cadet Corps under Army Order 24/1920.

Regards

Dave

[Timbob1001]

Thanks Dave!!

Would it be possible to get a scan for my files?

Cheers

Tim

[ddycher]

Tim

Have sent you a PM.

Regards

Dave