Looking for map: "Very 211 Groupe des Canevas de Tir"

[JOVE23]

Hello All,

In my continuing saga to tell the story of my great granduncle Max Polak, I recently sent off for and received more information from the National Archives about the circumstances and location of his death on 5 Oct, 1918 in the Argonne Forest.

I have attached a "Grave Location Blank" that presumably has the site of Max's battlefield burial. It references the coordinates of a specific trench map. I haven't the slightest idea as to where to locate said map, but I thought that if anyone had it in their archives it would be you folks.

Here is another grave-related document with another set of coordinates on them:

And for grins (and for the expansion of knowledge on this board), the citation for Max's Silver Star:

If anyone would be able to point me in the right direction RE: the map and the coordinates of Max's original burial, I would be appreciative.

Thanks,

Justin

[SteveMarsdin]

Hi Justin,

You are probably aware of this but Very is a small village in the Argonne, north-east of Varennes and south-west of your great grand-uncle's current resting place in the Meuse-Argonne cemetery. Several years ago I remember reading an American divisional history online, which, I think, referred to a field hospital based in Very, so there may have been a battlefield cemetery nearby.

If you search for "chauchat" on this forum you should find an interesting discussion on the gun he was using.

If you still haven't got a photo of the new grave by August, i'll get you one then.

[SteveMarsdin]

Hi again,

This is the Bois du Chene Sec, near Gesnes, that the notice refers to:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Gesnes-en-Argonne,+France&hl=en&ll=49.307441,5.043755&spn=0.007555,0.021136&sll=48.177408,-0.572022&sspn=0.123626,0.338173&oq=gesnes,+&t=h&hnear=Gesnes-en-Argonne,+Meuse,+Lorraine,+France&z=16

[JOVE23]

Steve,

Thanks for your help. I have a photo of the grave at the Meuse-Argonne Cemetery. I was hoping to find the spot where he fell. I'm going off the assumption that the map in question (and also map 35 NE) might lead me to within a few meters inside the Bois du Chene-Sec

Best,

Justin

[CROONAERT]

I'm going off the assumption that the map in question (and also map 35 NE) might lead me to within a few meters inside the Bois du Chene-Sec

They would... 35NE is a French Army Plan Directeur map of up to 1:40,000 scale (part of the 1:80,000 sheet 35 that covered the whole Verdun/Argonne area (Verdun being in the SE portion of the map). The reference given would give the location to within 100m. The 211 - Very map is a 1:20,000 scale map whose reference would give accuracy to 10m.

Dave

(PS. 35 was also printed in a British version, but I don't think that this was gridded so wouldn't be much use to you in this particular case. The British 1:100,000 scale Reims map (nr 23) may also be of use as I think this area may just creep into the eastern edge of it )

[CROONAERT]

I don't know whether this is of any use (from the 32nd Div history)...

[CROONAERT]

from the regimental history of the 126th infantry Regt...

[CROONAERT]

from the history of Co.C, 127th Infantry ....

[CROONAERT]

General map extract from 'American Battlefields in Europe'...

[JOVE23]

I am fairly confident that the location is on or near the Bois du Chene Sec, but without the proper maps I don't think it would be possible to narrow it down.

[JOVE23]

Here is the Bois du Chene Sec.

We may not have those maps handy (yet), but this excerpt from the company's history may be useful to abler sleuths than I:

[JOVE23]

I sent an e-mail to the French SHD a few days ago but I have yet to hear anything back. In the meantime, does anyone know of alternate routes I can go down to try to find these maps?