Cazsmith Posted 15 April , 2012 Share Posted 15 April , 2012 Herbert Skirrow (Gunner) - Reg. No. 154930 Joined - 3/2nd (WR) B'de RFA - 8 June 1915 Transferred - 62nd Batalion - 29 April 1916 Transferred - 4 'A' Res Brigade 20th R Batallion RFA - 15 August 1916 Expeditionary Force - posted - 19 August 1916 - more entries on 2 more pages of information He was wounded in 1917 and then reported missing in 1918. My Mother does know that he was taken POW, but not where. Also, he seems to have had his number re-allocated to 781947? The information I have was retrieved from the ancestry web site, but unfortunately I cannot read all of it. I would be very grateful if someone could please help me understand the army abbrieviations and meanings. Thank you. Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 15 April , 2012 Share Posted 15 April , 2012 Joined - 3/2nd (WR) B'de RFA - 8 June 1915 3rd Battery of the 2nd West Riding Brigade Royal Field Artillery. Territorial Force [Long Long Trail: What was an artillery brigade? note this is about a Regular Brigade but will give you an idea] At the begining of the war the Territorial Field Brigades were tasked to provide second line units. Thus the 1st West Riding Brigade RFA provided a cadre of soldiers and the 2nd West Riding Brigade was formed, and it's ranks would be swelled by Volunteers. The 3 denotes the 3rd Battery of the Brigade, so 3/2nd (WR) B'de RFA . The 1st line Battery was based at Heckmondwike. The Brigade was part of the Divisional Artillery for the 62nd (2nd West Riding Division) Information from the Long Long Trail 62nd (2nd West Riding) Division Transferred - 62nd Battalion - 29 April 1916 Not sure on this one as the Royal Artillery do not have Battalions. Could it be 62 Battery ? If so that is a Regular army Battery. 62 Brigade - New army Brigade. Could it be a reference to 62nd division ? Or from his Army number 1/2 Battery ? Transferred - 4 'A' Res Brigade 20th R Battalion RFA - 15 August 1916 4 A Reserve Brigade was based at Woolwich so he may have gone there for training. Again battalion does not make sense, though 21 Battery was part of 4 A Reserve Brigade. Expeditionary Force - posted - 19 August 1916 - more entries on 2 more pages of information The 62nd Division did not go to France till January 1917, Therefore he was posted to a unit outside that Division. This is conjecture, however gicen his number, he may have gone to the 49th (West Riding) Division. Information from the Long Long Trail 49th (West Riding) Division He was wounded in 1917 and then reported missing in 1918. My Mother does know that he was taken POW, but not where. Also, he seems to have had his number re-allocated to 781947? In 1917 the Territorial Force were allocated 6 digit numbers. This number was in the range allocated to 1/2nd West Riding Brigade RFA (which in May 1916 had been re designated 246 Brigade) The information I have was retrieved from the ancestry web site, but unfortunately I cannot read all of it. I would be very grateful if someone could please help me understand the army abbrieviations and meanings. Thank you. Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 15 April , 2012 Share Posted 15 April , 2012 Carol, I've had a small peek at his service record and found it quite interesting. He is serving on a Territorial Force Attestation. As Ian mentioned he first joined the 3rd line battery of 2nd West Riding RFA and was given the number 3106. He was then transferred to the 62nd Div Training Battery, No. 1 (T.F.) Artillery Training School and given number 7225. The interesting bit is that just prior to going overseas he is again transferred to 20 Reserve Battery, 4 A Reserve Brigade. He is allocated a number in the regular RFA series - 154930 - and proceeds overseas. After 10 days he is posted to 39th DAC. This is 39th Division Ammunition Column and he is given a role in V/39 (Heavy) Trench Mortar Battery which had just formed. He has PUO (Pyrexia of Unknown Origin) and is admitted to 44 CCS (Casualty Clearing Station) then 133 FA (Field Ambulance) Later he is again admitted to 133 FA with ICT Groin (Inflammation of Connective Tissue OR Injury Caused To). There is also a wounding from a gas shell and he went to 24 CCS, 51 FA then 26 General Hospital for 3 weeks. V/39 TMB is broken up on February 7, 1918 so he is posted to Y/39 (Medium) Trench Mortar Battery and promoted to Corporal. He was captured by the German army during the "Spring Offensive" and remained a Prisoner of War. His medals seem to have the number 154930 - he was not allocated number 781947 until Dec 1920, on transfer to Class Z reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 15 April , 2012 Share Posted 15 April , 2012 Having looked into the numbering a little further a pattern has emerged, as it so often does. Taking RH and RFA men with either 1549xx or 7819xx, or both, on their medal cards and finding service records I have got: Herbert Skirrow 3106, 7225, 154930, 781947 Ernest Mitchell 3512, 7191, 154939, 781945 John Haley 3528, 7142, 154943, 781913 Austin Nugent 2917, 7043, 154944, 781914 James Walsh 3044, 7248, 154945, 781915 Heaton Mosley 2550, ????, ?, 781916 Peter Wakefield 3012, 7254, 154948, 781917 All would have been in 3/2nd West Riding RFA then 62nd Div Training Battery (which was at Ripon) then 20 Reserve Battery, 4 A Reserve Brigade (at Woolwich). Herbert went to France but most of the others went to batteries in Egypt and Salonica. On moving to Class Z the new TF number is allocated. I'm guessing that 3/2nd West Riding RFA was disbanded or merged into 62nd Div. Training Battery. As 62nd Division didn't go overseas until 1917 the trained up men were siphoned into the regulars during August 1916 as replacements/reinforcements, especially for Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazsmith Posted 17 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2012 Thank you for this information. It is most helpful and it is all now starting to make sense. Carol Joined - 3/2nd (WR) B'de RFA - 8 June 1915 3rd Battery of the 2nd West Riding Brigade Royal Field Artillery. Territorial Force [Long Long Trail: What was an artillery brigade? note this is about a Regular Brigade but will give you an idea] At the begining of the war the Territorial Field Brigades were tasked to provide second line units. Thus the 1st West Riding Brigade RFA provided a cadre of soldiers and the 2nd West Riding Brigade was formed, and it's ranks would be swelled by Volunteers. The 3 denotes the 3rd Battery of the Brigade, so 3/2nd (WR) B'de RFA . The 1st line Battery was based at Heckmondwike. The Brigade was part of the Divisional Artillery for the 62nd (2nd West Riding Division) Information from the Long Long Trail 62nd (2nd West Riding) Division Transferred - 62nd Battalion - 29 April 1916 Not sure on this one as the Royal Artillery do not have Battalions. Could it be 62 Battery ? If so that is a Regular army Battery. 62 Brigade - New army Brigade. Could it be a reference to 62nd division ? Or from his Army number 1/2 Battery ? Transferred - 4 'A' Res Brigade 20th R Battalion RFA - 15 August 1916 4 A Reserve Brigade was based at Woolwich so he may have gone there for training. Again battalion does not make sense, though 21 Battery was part of 4 A Reserve Brigade. Expeditionary Force - posted - 19 August 1916 - more entries on 2 more pages of information The 62nd Division did not go to France till January 1917, Therefore he was posted to a unit outside that Division. This is conjecture, however gicen his number, he may have gone to the 49th (West Riding) Division. Information from the Long Long Trail 49th (West Riding) Division He was wounded in 1917 and then reported missing in 1918. My Mother does know that he was taken POW, but not where. Also, he seems to have had his number re-allocated to 781947? In 1917 the Territorial Force were allocated 6 digit numbers. This number was in the range allocated to 1/2nd West Riding Brigade RFA (which in May 1916 had been re designated 246 Brigade) The information I have was retrieved from the ancestry web site, but unfortunately I cannot read all of it. I would be very grateful if someone could please help me understand the army abbrieviations and meanings. Thank you. Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazsmith Posted 17 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2012 David Thank you so much for your help. Could you please let me know what the V/39 and Y/39 means. Carol Carol, I've had a small peek at his service record and found it quite interesting. He is serving on a Territorial Force Attestation. As Ian mentioned he first joined the 3rd line battery of 2nd West Riding RFA and was given the number 3106. He was then transferred to the 62nd Div Training Battery, No. 1 (T.F.) Artillery Training School and given number 7225. The interesting bit is that just prior to going overseas he is again transferred to 20 Reserve Battery, 4 A Reserve Brigade. He is allocated a number in the regular RFA series - 154930 - and proceeds overseas. After 10 days he is posted to 39th DAC. This is 39th Division Ammunition Column and he is given a role in V/39 (Heavy) Trench Mortar Battery which had just formed. He has PUO (Pyrexia of Unknown Origin) and is admitted to 44 CCS (Casualty Clearing Station) then 133 FA (Field Ambulance) Later he is again admitted to 133 FA with ICT Groin (Inflammation of Connective Tissue OR Injury Caused To). There is also a wounding from a gas shell and he went to 24 CCS, 51 FA then 26 General Hospital for 3 weeks. V/39 TMB is broken up on February 7, 1918 so he is posted to Y/39 (Medium) Trench Mortar Battery and promoted to Corporal. He was captured by the German army during the "Spring Offensive" and remained a Prisoner of War. His medals seem to have the number 154930 - he was not allocated number 781947 until Dec 1920, on transfer to Class Z reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazsmith Posted 18 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2012 Hi Thank you for all your help so far. I just have a few more queries regarding my Grandfather's army records and have attached a table format for ease of my own use and that of my Mother. Also is there a way of finding out which battles he would have fought in and maybe a war diary I could get hold of? My Mother would dearly love to find out which Prisoner of War camp he went to. Is this possible? Your help is much appreciated.Herbert Skirrow - army record transcript.doc Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 18 April , 2012 Share Posted 18 April , 2012 From the Long Long Trail 39th Division Trench Mortar Batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 18 April , 2012 Share Posted 18 April , 2012 Carol There is a shory histroy of 39th Dvisional Artillery. http://archive.org/d...llery00weibuoft Your chap is listed in the Nominal Role. Page 73 Bdr Skirrow H wounded 17-10-1917 Page 75 Gnr Skirrow H Missing 28-3-1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 18 April , 2012 Share Posted 18 April , 2012 Carol. V/39 and Y/39 were designated names (with X/39 and Z/39) of Trench Mortar Batteries in 39th Division - see http://www.1914-1918.net/39div.htm The 39th Divisional Artillery War Diaries are at Kew under reference WO 95/2574 and this includes the Trench Mortar Batteries July 1916 - July 1918. Herbert's service record confirms he was a POW from March 28, 1918 however no details of his whereabouts are given. There is a letter, which you have probably seen, from his family stating he had corresponded with them and this was forwarded to the War Office. Some interviews and reports from POWs are held at The National Archive - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/pow.asp From an estimated 192,000 British and Commonwealth captives only about 3,000 individuals are named in these documents, and no Skirrow. I can only suggest that you search for local press reports of his capture which might shed light on where he went. EDIT: Excellent link given by Ian to the book - men in TMBs captured the same day as Herbert were: Gnr. BANNISTER, B. T . Gnr. SWARSBRICK, E. Gnr. COUTANCHE, A. Gnr. WEILD, F. Gnr. GREEN, H. Dvr. McMASTER, W. Corpl. PIPER, E. P Corpl. SPACKMAN, E. S. Bdr. STANLEY, G. R Gnr. GARDINER, A. G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazsmith Posted 28 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 April , 2012 Thank you all so much for your help. My Mother is loving all this information about her Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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