SMLE Butt Disc ID

[shippingsteel]

To further assist any persons interested in researching their Indian weaponry based on the stamped markings, here is another example of the format.

This butt disc shown below is a good illustration of how the Indian depots would identify the origin and ownership of their weapons at the time of issue.

This example is a GW period disc photographed on a SMLE rifle, bearing information that can be readily correlated with the Indian Army List of 1914.

So walking through the markings shown from the very top we can see this rifle was issued out of the Rawalpindi Arsenal (R.P) in January of 1914 (1.14)

The unit it was issued to was the 1/6th Gurkhas which formed part of the 3rd Abbottbad Brigade of the 2nd (Rawalpindi) Division based near the arsenal.

The 'rack number' of the weapon for administrative purposes was 124 as stamped at the bottom. This format appears very standard with Indian markings.

Whether its found on butt discs or 'backstraps' the marking format from the same period always remains the same, as can be seen on the Webley at centre.

From the top it was issued out of Kirkee Arsenal (K.A) in August of 1914 (8.14) most probably to the 4th Battalion Gwalior Infantry, an Imperial Service unit.

This particular battalion was mobilised to Egypt in August 1914 where it formed part of the 32nd Imperial Service Infantry Brigade of the 11th Indian Division.

And another fairly battered butt disc on the far right showing issue out of Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) in February 1914 (2.14) to the 119th Infantry Regiment.

This unit was in the 17th Ahmednagar Brigade of the 6th (Poona) Division, seeing service in the Mesopotamian campaign and also enduring the Siege of Kut.

Cheers, S>S

[MCMacV]

"A further possibility for the GI unit marking would be the "4th Gwalior Infantry" which was an Imperial Service unit which defended the Suez Canal in Egypt.

This particular battalion was mobilised to Egypt in August 1914 where it then formed part of the 32nd Imperial Service Infantry Brigade in the 11th Indian Division."

S>S,

This bit of information has made the most sense so far as matching the markings on the gun. So the question still is: what is the K.A. marking and how does it relate to the 4th Gwalior Infantry. It certainly is not the Karachi Artillery Volunteers, so maybe it is an Arsenal marking? Thanks for the info! Tom

[shippingsteel]

From the top it was issued out of Kirkee Arsenal (K.A) in August of 1914 (8.14) most probably to the 4th Battalion Gwalior Infantry, an Imperial Service unit.

This particular battalion was mobilised to Egypt in August 1914 where it formed part of the 32nd Imperial Service Infantry Brigade of the 11th Indian Division.

Cheers, S>S

[MCMacV]

S>S,

I do beleive you may have solved the mystery of the unit markings on this Webley. Everything seems to fit. The gun came with its original leather flap holster dated 1916, London and inked on top of the flap on the outside (not inside) was the name 'M.C. MacVeigh' (the initial 'M' could also be a 'W'). I am waitng to hear from someone who has access to British Military records and see if this name pans out. In any case, until proven wrong, I am going with your information. Thanks again for your help! Tom

[shippingsteel]

The gun came with its original leather flap holster dated 1916, London ...

Happy to help where I can - but unfortunately your holster cannot possibly be the original issue if it was made in 1916, with the gun bearing a '14 issue date.?

I'm sure its not unusual though for it to be a replacement holster - especially if it saw wartime service, any wear or damage given short-shift for a new version.

Cheers, S>S