Officers Going into Action - Gallipoli 1915

[Guest]

Hello

A few threads ago there was a sideline debate about how Officers were armed when going into battle at Gallipoli and how they were dressed. There was a general order at some stage of the campaign (can't find the reference) that Officers should dress as soldiers to make them less conspicuous, and to carry rifles rather than revolvers for the same reasons. I hope to build up a picture of how and when Officers changed tactics and began to dress and arm themselves as soldiers more. The one example that sticks in my mind is Capt Wedgwood Benn (Middlesex Hussars) actually forgetting to arm himself when going into action for the first time on 21st Aug 1915 at Suvla Bay. There are two other examples (below) that suggest to me (in the early days at least) that Officers went into action dressed and armed as if on parade, unless they were specifically advised or ordered to do otherwise:

1. Maj Blackburne, 9th (Service) Bn Sherwood Foresters - Action on 9th Aug 1915: "It now became absolutely imperative to retire the centre and left. B Coy having(?) some shelling in AZMAK DERE. The Right of A Coy were for a moment unsteadied, all their Officers being killed or wounded but it was only for a moment as Lt SCOTHERN siezed a rifle and with it threatened to shoot any man who did not fom up along a ledge about 50 yards in rear. This had an immediate effect and A Coy retired well in hand, D and C Coys returing also about 100 yards in an orderly manner

2. "Juvenis" aka Lt O G E McWilliam, 5th (Service) Bn Royal Inniskilling Fusilers - Action on 15th Aug 1915: "In a few minutes all was ready for the move. Two ammunition boxes of water were to be carried behind each platoon (we had seen the result of the lack of it a few days before). The canvas bandoliers were slung on, chin-straps drawn down to keep the helmets on, etc. I secured a casualty's rifle and bayonet, and made a brief exhortation to the section commanders. It would have been much longer, but was unfortunately cut short by orders to lead on my platoon, down back along the little path past the battalion headquarters and the doctor's little dug-out......We crossed their trench and advanced into the low scrub to a little hollow where the company commander was waiting for us. Just as I was jumping across the trench one of the gunner officers advised me to take off my collar and tie if I wanted to return, so as to be more like the men; so I unfastened them as we went on, and put them in my pocket.

I wonder if anyone has other examples of how Officers changed to dressing and arming themselves at Gallipoli. What interests me in the above accounts is that they are all from the Suvla Bay landings. I would imagine (but have no evidence yet) that the bitter experiences of the Helles and ANZAC fronts would have alerted Officers to the dangers of going into action with sam-browne belts, ties, canes, and revolvers. It seems strange that they were not forewarned and forearmed. MG

[michaeldr]

Martin,

I believe that the habit of dressing like the rank & file started quite early at Gallipoli: see Compton Mackenzie's 'Gallipoli Memories' page 28 which describes 14th May.

A man from the Inniskilling Fusiliers offers to help Monty get a uniform and suggests

"I could get you a service-jacket from Army Stores for ten shillings. Lots of officers prefer to wear them instead of their own so as to dodge the snipers.”

regards

Michael

edit to add: see also p.31 - "I felt less ashamed of my service-jacket when a young subaltern in the Essex Regiment congratulated me on my prudence and told me he was going to get one for himself as soon as he went ashore."

Edited 26 January , 2012 by michaeldr

[Guest]

Martin,

I believe that the habit of dressing like the rank & file started quite early at Gallipoli: see Compton Mackenzie's 'Gallipoli Memories' page 28 which describes 14th May.

A man from the Inniskilling Fusiliers offers to help Monty get a uniform and suggests

"I could get you a service-jacket from Army Stores for ten shillings. Lots of officers prefer to wear them instead of their own so as to dodge the snipers."

regards

Michael

edit to add: see also p.31 - "I felt less ashamed of my service-jacket when a young subaltern in the Essex Regiment congratulated me on my prudence and told me he was going to get one for himself as soon as he went ashore."

Thanks Michael - So there is hard evidence that a full 3 months prior to the Suvla Bay landings it was acceptable for Officers at Helles to dress as soldiers in order to make themselves less conspicuous to the enemy when in the front line. It seems to me to be quite a failing that these basic tactical measures, learned at such a high cost, were not implemented before the Suvla landings. Officer casualties* in the first few weeks of Suvla Bay were catastrophic - averaging over 90% in the assaulting troops of the battalions** of the 10th and 11th Divisions - and arguably one of the main reasons for failure in the critical first weeks.

Any further examples would be very welcome. MG

* Casualties definition: KIA, WIA, MIA and WAMIA

* 100% in the case of the 9th (Service) Bn Sherwood Foresters, 96% for the 6th (Service) Bn Yorkshire Regt, 96% 6th (Service) Bn B order Regt, 96% 8th (Service) Bn Northumberland Fusiliers etc...

Edit: Note GHQ MEF General Order dated 13th July 1915 to IXth Corps limited the number of Officers taking the field would be limited to 25 per Bn (plus the MO). In cases where a Battalion had 25 or fewer Officers, at least one Officer would be left with the first reinforcements held at Mudros in Base Depots.

MG

[michaeldr]

Martin,

see Kate's post #18 here

[yes, it was in August 2003!]

It seems to indicate that in the winter of 14/15 training already included the tip that officers should dress like their men

quote:

Going through 7th Northants Battalion Orders for 27 August 1915 , I came across this item:

"1. Officers' Dress

As the Brigade will shortly be going abroad, the Brig. Gen wishes to call attention to a lecture delivered at Portslade by General Pilcher last winter advising officers to dress like their men. He recommends all Regimental Officers to have one service jacket and one pair of trousers the same pattern as that of their men, to wear in the trenches, and also the same pattern great-coat.

(Bde lr no 2470 dated 28.8.15)"

(my emphasis)

regards

Michael

[Paul67]

Martin,

I have found an example from Peter Hart's "Gallipoli" where he quotes from Captain John Milne, 9th Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 1st Div AIF, while perched on Bolton's Ridge on the 25th April:

"A man lying next to me got killed,and I put out my left hand to take his rifle and have a shot." He goes on to talk about a shell bursting and smashing the stock (and his fingers) before he got a chance to.

...and on pg 134 while describing the landings at Helles he quotes Major Richard Willis, 1st Lancashire Fusiliers, 86th Brigade, 29th Div while pinned down on the sand in front of the wire:

"I shot a sniper who was picking people off from the cliff edge. It was a good shot and i saw him after we got up - hit in the mouth. Under cover we started cleaning our rifles which were useless from the sand and water..."

This would suggest that Willis was at ease using if not carrying a rifle - not only a good shot but he'd managed to keep his rifle working long enough when others were "useless".

I'll keep me eyes out for more examples.

Paul

[The Plummed Goose]

Dear Martin,

It had become a habit (there may even have been orders to do so) to "dress down" after the high officer casuality rate sufferred both in Helles and Anzac at the initial landings. Many examples are available of officers going into battle with a rifle and other soldiers' items to "camouflage" themselves.

However the 10th and 11th came straight from home and were not adviced to do so and went into battle with their sam browne belt and the like ... question of making a good first impression I presume.

I don't know about the 13th but they were probably told by the the "old sweats" in Helles and later in Anzac to do so. I have never come across apart from the fact that bean in 1919 "thought" -because of the coat- he had come across the remains of a colonel.

farm cemtery

eric

[alantwo]

Hi Martin

Part of page 5 of Rettie's 'With the Field Artillery at Suvla Bay Landing' attached. Rettie's account was kindly forwarded to me last year.

Regards

Alan

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is an action photograph showing uniforms and headwear, taken at Gallipoli.

" The caption reads " British infantry, in their heavy khaki serge, scramble over the top ".

LF

[Guest]

Thanks LF. Personally I think his photo, along with a few others is a photo from training, probably on Mudros. There are many WWI photos that purport to have been taken in action which on closer scrutiny have been shown to be re-enactments or training. an interesting photo nonetheless.I am specifically interested in Officers' dress rather than ORs' dress, and particularly when and how they changed from Officer Dress to OR's dress. It seems that the hard lessons learned at Helles were not passed on to the TF Divisions, who in turn had to learn for themselves. MG

[Guest]

Hi Martin

Part of page 5 of Rettie's 'With the Field Artillery at Suvla Bay Landing' attached.  Rettie's account was kindly forwarded to me last year.

Regards

Alan

Thanks Alan. Any dates? Another example of the TF Divs relearning old lessons. Very useful. MG

[Jeff Pickerd]

Martin,

You have asked for evidence and dates for officers outfitting themselves similar to that of all other ranks at Gallipoli.

For the Australian Light Horse Brigades, the earliest reference is prior to the 1st LH Brigade embarking from Egypt on the 9th May.

The 1st LH Regt War Diary notes - "All ranks were equipped as infantry, officers wearing the same pattern of tunic as the men so as not to be conspicuous to the enemy."

2nd Lt Carthew, "A" Troop, "C" Sqdn of the 8th LH Regt,in a letter home on the 13th May 1915, prior to the regiment embarking for Gallipoli on the 15th May: "...we are fitted out well as regards clothing, the trouble is carrying it. Us Officers are fitted out just like the men. Bandolier, Rifle and Bayonet, clothing and all issued with Helmets. The reason is we can’t be picked out from the men, gives us a better chance.”

Capt William J. Day 2I.C. “A” Squadron, 8th LH: "Officers equipped exactly the same as other ranks except that they do not carry rifles."

The 8th LH Regt M.O, Capt Sid Campbell, aboard the “Menominnee” on his way to Gallipoli noted: “Everyone cheerful. Strange how casually one views the possibility of being shot in a few days time. Issued with maps. Several officers on board returning have given us good idea of what to expect. Sewed pockets on tail of tunic.” He had earlier noted: “Some of the Imperial officers have very swagger kits. They are chiefly, I think, on their first visit.”

For the charge at the Nek, 7th August, Lt Tom Kidd of the 10th LH, as brigade intelligence officer and troop leader noted of the Operational Order No. 2, issued 6th August: "No jackets to be worn, all ranks to charge in shirtsleeves, each individual to wear large patch of white cloth on his back."

All of the above clealy indicates that officers at Anzac, or proceeding there, were being advised of the danger of drawing attention to themselves through attire and equipment as early as the end of April.

Jeff

[alantwo]

Hi Martin

The 11th and 12th referred to by Rettie are in August 1915, but we do need to bear in mind that it was written sometime after the war ended.

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

Martin,

You have asked for evidence and dates for officers outfitting themselves similar to that of all other ranks at Gallipoli.

For the Australian Light Horse Brigades, the earliest reference is prior to the 1st LH Brigade embarking from Egypt on the 9th May.

The 1st LH Regt War Diary notes - "All ranks were equipped as infantry, officers wearing the same pattern of tunic as the men so as not to be conspicuous to the enemy."

2nd Lt Carthew, "A" Troop, "C" Sqdn of the 8th LH Regt,in a letter home on the 13th May 1915, prior to the regiment embarking for Gallipoli on the 15th May: "...we are fitted out well as regards clothing, the trouble is carrying it. Us Officers are fitted out just like the men. Bandolier, Rifle and Bayonet, clothing and all issued with Helmets. The reason is we can't be picked out from the men, gives us a better chance."

Capt William J. Day 2I.C. "A" Squadron, 8th LH: "Officers equipped exactly the same as other ranks except that they do not carry rifles."

The 8th LH Regt M.O, Capt Sid Campbell, aboard the "Menominnee" on his way to Gallipoli noted: "Everyone cheerful. Strange how casually one views the possibility of being shot in a few days time. Issued with maps. Several officers on board returning have given us good idea of what to expect. Sewed pockets on tail of tunic." He had earlier noted: "Some of the Imperial officers have very swagger kits. They are chiefly, I think, on their first visit."

For the charge at the Nek, 7th August, Lt Tom Kidd of the 10th LH, as brigade intelligence officer and troop leader noted of the Operational Order No. 2, issued 6th August: "No jackets to be worn, all ranks to charge in shirtsleeves, each individual to wear large patch of white cloth on his back."

All of the above clealy indicates that officers at Anzac, or proceeding there, were being advised of the danger of drawing attention to themselves through attire and equipment as early as the end of April.

Jeff

Jeff. This is excellent. Many thanks. The Aussies seemed to be way ahead of their British counterparts on this. MG

[Guest]

Hi Martin

The 11th and 12th referred to by Rettie are in August 1915, but we do need to bear in mind that it was written sometime after the war ended.

Regards

Alan

Alan - many thanks. I have Rettie's account from the version he wrote for Aspinall Oglander, so I must dig into it again. I recall he was very critical but objective about the first few days at Suvla. He seems to me to have been a man of action.....MG

[T8HANTS]

Officers of the 8th Hants paraded in Watford wearing standard 1914 pattern leather equipment, but their tunics were open collar with ties. Tried posting a photo, but couldn't get it down small enough

G

[Bryn]

The practice of officers wearing uniforms that don't mark them out as officers was applied even in the Boer War. I've seen a number of references to it, including this one:

"Infantry officers are to discard their swords, and each will carry a rifle and bayonet. In appearance to the enemy they will resemble their men so closely that the cheerful practice of singling out and picking off the leaders will not, in future, be so easily pursued as it has been in the past." (South Australian Register, 29 Dec 1899 p6),

It's well-known that Captain Joe Lalor, of the 12th Battalion, carried a sword with him - against orders - on the first day at Anzac, but that he had camouflaged it: "a fine old sword (a family relic) bound round with hessian to prevent it glistening in the sun" (From Newton, The History of the 12th Battalion p88).