Muerrisch Posted 13 January , 2012 Share Posted 13 January , 2012 Can someone help an ignorant Sassenach please? I would like a guide to sporrans to ID fotos of Highland Scots, [and Pipers of Lowland], in full dress. My internet searches have left me a little short of understanding, as in many subjects. And, if some kind souls can help, a "since when" for each design would be helpful. And, if you want independence, thats OK, and if not, thats OK too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 13 January , 2012 Share Posted 13 January , 2012 I can take care of Gordons for you not much else photgraphically but I think somewhere I have a contemporary (I am thinking 1911/12) table that compares Sporrans of the different regiments (written description, no pics IIRC) Should also note that there are variantions between Officers/ Senior NCOs/ ORs sporran patterns too within the same regiment - this is usually the degree or ornateness in the cantle (the metal bit at the top)Pipers too sometimes! I will try and dig it out and post the table unless someone beats me to it. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 13 January , 2012 Share Posted 13 January , 2012 Should also note that there are variantions between Officers/ Senior NCOs/ ORs sporran patterns too within the same regiment - this is usually the degree or ornateness in the cantle (the metal bit at the top)Pipers too sometimes! And sometimes variations between different battalions in the same regiment - a huge minefield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 Here is the full dress uniform of a pipe major from the Royal Scots Fusiliers (the 1st and 2nd [ie Regular] Battalions (- I imagine that the Territorial and New Army battalions had similar but can't be certain) from around 1900 to 1928 showing piper's sporran. [in 1928 the tartan changed from Government (ie Black Watch) to Dress Erskine (mostly red with dark green stripes), the doublet/jacket from green to blue, and possibly other aspects of the uniform as well, but the sporran stayed the same, even for the Royal Highland Fusiliers, until the very latest round of amalgamations.] William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 Full Dress details from 1911 Dress Regulations for the Army. Note: I believe this describes Officers' sporrans in full dress only. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 14 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2012 Many thanks ...... so, for crude recognition purposes in most cases, the colour of the hairy bit, and the colour and number of danglers is diagnostic? Sort of ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 The A&SH dress badger sporrans as per the description supplied by Chris are suprisingly common still - I find them delightfully creepy myself... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Rare-WWI-Earlier-Argyll-Sutherland-Highlanders-Badger-Head-Sporran-/260927249047?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item3cc079da97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 Many thanks ...... so, for crude recognition purposes in most cases, the colour of the hairy bit, and the colour and number of danglers is diagnostic? Sort of ............ with the emphasis on the latter! I think in officers' full dress more so than with O/Rs. For example Gordons and Seaforths have white hair sporran with two black tassles. The cantles differ however. I will try and dig out some pictures over the weekend (we get an extra day this week) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 Some more (mostly lowland) pipers' sporrans to add to Chris' highlanders and my Royal Scots Fusiliers (all of these are roughly 1900 until at least the end of the Great War): The Royal Scots piper: white sporran with two black tassels, the cantle is a silver regimental crest with a distinctive black enamel background. The King's Own Scottish borderers piper: very similar to Royal Scots, with white sporran and two black tassels, but the cantle is completely silver. Scots Guards piper: white sporran with three black tassels, a silver cantle with black enamel background, Highland Light Infantry piper: [getting complicated] pipers - white sporran with three black tassels, a silver and black enamel cantle, very similar to Scots Guards apart from regimental crest on cantle. (I have seen a photo of a HLI pipe-major, taken in 1910, which shows him with six black tassels rather than the ordinary pipers' three) . HLI Officers and NCOs, in battalions which wore the kilt, had a wonderful black sporran with three white tassels, with a gold and black enamel cantle. Scottish Rifles piper: [more complicated - the regular battalions insisted on being different from each other!] 1st battalion: ("The Cameronians") a black sporran with two white tassels and a silver cantle. 2nd battalion: ("2nd Scottish Rifles", never "Cameronians") a grey sporran with three black tassels, silver/white metal cantle. I think that the Territorial battalions followed the 2nd Scottish Rifles pattern (since they did with cap-badges and other uniform details), but I don't know about the New Army battalions. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 14 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2012 Thank you all for contributing, I look fwd to pix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 Found a couple - will dig out more. Gordon Officer (as described above) Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 Just to demonstrate the variety All Gordon Highlanders, all Great War or just before: Piper - photo dated 1913 (this is not the usual pattern in my experience) Piper - photo dates 1913-1915 Piper (wartime photo probably 1916-18) O/R - photo dates Oct 1914-Feb 1915 Pre War NCO dress NCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 16 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Many thanks ........ Gordons = 2 dark danglers on a pale hairy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Gordons = 2 dark danglers on a pale hairy! Excellent! So the Argyll and Sutherlands = 6 white danglers on a black hairy, plus head of distinctly annoyed-looking badger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Many thanks ........ Gordons = 2 dark danglers on a pale hairy! Yes.....but and Argylls O/Rs don't get the Angry Badger! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 A hair sporran had to be trimmed to fit the wearer. An over enthusiastic recruit could easily end up with his own pattern. ( Like levelling the legs on a table). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 A hair sporran had to be trimmed to fit the wearer. An over enthusiastic recruit could easily end up with his own pattern. ( Like levelling the legs on a table). OR HE COULD JUST HITCH IT UP A BIT? (Don't ask me - I have no idea what is going on here) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 17 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2012 no, and you don't want to! Many thanks people, more, more, encore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hughes Posted 30 January , 2012 Share Posted 30 January , 2012 The A&SH dress badger sporrans as per the description supplied by Chris are suprisingly common still - I find them delightfully creepy myself... http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cc079da97 It's the stunned expression on the Angry Badgers face that always amuses me... A bit like the racoon caps worn by Canadians - but then, if you had a Mountie's head up your chuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 30 January , 2012 Share Posted 30 January , 2012 OR HE COULD JUST HITCH IT UP A BIT? (Don't ask me - I have no idea what is going on here) Chris Now that is a cracking picture! It also illustrates the fact that although the camera never lies, the guy in the picture might be having a laugh. I wonder if the corporal had just got his ticket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 30 January , 2012 Share Posted 30 January , 2012 Grumpy, I can't add too much to this except to say I hope you success. Except for basic ORs types I know very little and this is a frustrating topic. I can only say I hope you can put together charts like you did for armbands for the sporran knowledge deficients like me. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 30 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2012 Grumpy, I can't add too much to this except to say I hope you success. Except for basic ORs types I know very little and this is a frustrating topic. I can only say I hope you can put together charts like you did for armbands for the sporran knowledge deficients like me. Joe Sweeney Joe, thanks .... I will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 February , 2012 Share Posted 1 February , 2012 Joe, thanks .... I will! This only shows the basics but it is at least a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 2 February , 2012 Share Posted 2 February , 2012 Joe, thanks .... I will! Will the project include sporrans worn with KD in India? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 4 June , 2012 Share Posted 4 June , 2012 Grumpy, I can give you a guide to sporrans for each Highland regiment in full dress, and possibly for Lowland pipers, that looks something like the following if you still need this info. This is for the Black Watch as an example; the BW is actually a simple case with only three patterns of sporrans. Let me know if you want more. ORs, Sergeants before approx 1904 Officers in review order, pipers, sergeants after 1904 (This picture is of the RSM) Officers in levee dress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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