non coms in the war

[Guest nelson]

hi all

this is my first posting here so please forgive any mistakes , my question is does anyone know if an owner of horses asked to take said animals to france would he be payed by the military or the gov for his time whilst abroad as i suppose he would have been compensated for the loss of his anmals any way .

regards

trevor

[Old Tom]

Hello and welcome. There will be experts on this sort of question, but I will offer a few general thoughts. I don't think any horse owners were asked to take their horses to France, unless they were officers or other ranks in possibly a territorial mounted unit. Many horses were bought by the army of course. I recall reading that pre-war teams of heavy horses were hired by the army to move the 60 pounder (the weight of shell fired) guns on exercises.

Old Tom

[kenf48]

In 1914 the requisition of horses was governed by the mobilisation plan or War Book as was their transportation to the Army Depots.

This discussion on an earlier thread has a couple of references

http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=64780

One account describes how, in August 1914 village greens became the scene of haggling and branding as the horses were led away. The Yeomanry were paying £75 for and officer's horse and £50 for a troopers - one trooper in Lyn Macdonald's 1914 describes how the horse he was given was blind! An indication perhaps of the haste in which the transactions were conducted. The fact they were then Army property makes it unlikely their owner accompanied them. (Unless as Tom points out they were also being mobilised).

The need for horses was constant and no doubt as the war progressed contractors supplying this need might have delivered them to a Depot, though I would have thought the first port of call would have been in the UK.

There were many non-combatants in France for example running canteens.

Perhaps if you're more specific we could try and help.

Ken

[Terry_Reeves]

The purchase and supply of horses for came about through through the pre-war organisation set up General Sir John Cowans, the Quarter-Master General from 1912-1919. In the two years prior to the war, Cowans overhauled the existing system, such as it was, and made sure that on mobilisation that sources of supply were readily available and that a system of immediate payment was in place. As part of that system, civilians were employed. The following is from Cowans biography:

"The regulations that were now codified, directed that the Command should arrange with prominent local gentlemen of suitable knowledge and status, that they should become on mobilisation Remount Purchasers. For this purpose the Deputy-Assistant Director of Remounts of a circle was to keep a despatch box, for each purchaser, containing lists of stables from which he was to select horses, a time-table showing the number required each day, branding irons, a cheque book for payment, forms for demanding horses from the magistrates to sign, also instructions authorising the purchasers to obtain an imprest account and to incur expenditure on grooms, horse-holders, clerks and premises."

Plenty of non-combatant involvment as you can see.

TR

[nigelfe]

Actually, in 1908 IIRC, the Royal Artillery (the biggest user of horses) did their own study and concluded that there were not enough in UK to support their mobilisation. They established some form of sponsored breeding program (I'd have to check details, it's in the RA History for 1899-1914) for horses in the 'light vanner' class, which is what was needed for the teams.

[kenf48]

Plenty of non-combatant involvment as you can see.

TR

Thank you for that Terry, very interesting. The original question though was 'if an owner asked to take said animals to France etc.'

Do you know if this occurred? One assumes 'Remount Purchaser' was just a fancy title for an Army agent or contractor, not the owner of 'said animal'.

Ken

[Terry_Reeves]

Ken

I'm pleased you found it interesting, just like your contribution, and like you, I could not find anyone who had been an owner/rider taking their steed overseas. Sometimes a bit of background is very useful though and a little prod in another direction can prove fruitful.

TR

[kenf48]

Thanks Terry

A little prod in another direction then...(perhaps the OP will be back by Xmas)

The experience of owners may be conveyed in this poem from a contemporary R.S.P.C.A. anthology sold to raise money for wounded animals:-

We didn't know much about it

We thought they'd all come back

But off they all were taken

White and Brown and Black;

Cart and Cab and Carriage,

Wagon and Break and Dray,

Went out at the call of duty.

And we watched them go away.

All of their grieving owners

Led them along the lane

Down the hill to the station.

And saw them off by train.

They must be back for Xmas

And won't we give them a feed.

(cited in Jilly Cooper Animals at War)

Ken

P.S. it was for charidee - literary critics note!

[mike n]

I thought that horses went through re mount centres such as at arborfield camp south of reading. no doubt having having been through the purchasing system beforehand ?

[KevinBattle]

.... this is my first posting here so please forgive any mistakes

If it's taken trevor over 2 years to make his first post, then which Xmas will we have the next posting from him???!!!

Is that a record for the longest "lurker" before their first post?

Until he responds, we might just be guessing what he intended to ask.

My take is that a horse owner might have asked (the Army) if he could take his horse to France himself.

Coupled with the title referring to "non coms" (Non Commemorated or Non Commissioned?) perhaps he's trying to trace the possible fate of a horse owner who "disappeared" en route to taking his horse abroad? More likely he disappeared as he didn't want his horse taken, using the pretext of taking the horse abroad himself.....?

With such a long gestation, we might have had a slightly better phrased question.............