New book'Into the Silence:The Great War,Mallory and the Conquest o

[Alan Tucker]

1st three British expeditions - 1921, 1922, 1924.

Book 'investigates how the carnage of the trenches bled into a desire for redemption at the top of the world'.

Of the 26 climbers 20 had seen front line action including Mallory. 6 had been severely wounded; two others hospitalised by disease at the front and one treated for shell shock.

'for these veterans death had lost its power'. 'They had seen so much of death that life mattered less than the moments of being alive'.

[CarylW]

Thanks Alan. Nearly fell off my perch with excitement then!

I'll look forward to reading the book. This is something we talked about in this thread

 

 

[David_Blanchard]

I would almost recommend the documentary film 'The Wildest Dream' about the Mallory expedition and the book by the same name, released in 2010.

Regards

David

[David_Blanchard]

Finished reading this book. Good in every way. A section concerned with the Newfoundland Regiment's attack on the 1st July was one of the most graphic and visceral accounts of warfare on the Western Front I have read.

Regards

David

[peterhogg]

I started it this weekend and am thoroughly enjoying it. One of the most interesting books I have read of late on any subject, including the Great War, Everest and post-war England. Tremendous book. (It also serves as a nice "companion read" to Krakauer's Into Thin Air)

peter

[daggers]

I was given this book for Christmas and am working through the meticulous account of the first post War expedition. I was brought up short by a statement on page 234 about war cemeteries. "the carefully manicured cemeteries built after the war by the IWGC, maintained beautifully as memorials to this day, promoted the illusion that there were actual bodies buried beneath the neat rows of individual headstones. The inscriptions remember the dead, but the graves, for the most part, contain nothing but the hopes and dreams of the living."

Would anyone like to comment on this? I have never heard it suggested that the cemeteries are a sham, and wonder if it has been taken up with the author, Wade Davis.

Daggers

[ph0ebus]

I was given this book for Christmas and am working through the meticulous account of the first post War expedition. I was brought up short by a statement on page 234 about war cemeteries. "the carefully manicured cemeteries built after the war by the IWGC, maintained beautifully as memorials to this day, promoted the illusion that there were actual bodies buried beneath the neat rows of individual headstones. The inscriptions remember the dead, but the graves, for the most part, contain nothing but the hopes and dreams of the living."

Would anyone like to comment on this? I have never heard it suggested that the cemeteries are a sham, and wonder if it has been taken up with the author, Wade Davis.

Daggers

That is a pretty powerful allegation. I saw an interview with the author on Public Television and he made no mention of it. I wonder how folks at CWGC feel about a statement like that?

-Daniel

[JimSmithson]

There is a website where comments could be left regarding the book. I make no guarantees that the author will ever see them but you never know. The one comment so far seems to be highly critical of the stance taken by Davis over the Great War, especially the generals. It might be a fitting place to put the above quote to the author and maybe it will get a response (OK according to Darwin pigs might fly one day, they just need the right environmental push.) The link is:

http://wadedavis.org...ence-telegraph/

I have not yet read the book therefore feel I should not comment at this stage.

Jim

I'm a climber too and it is not an excuse for not getting your facts correct (at least it is not my excuse!)

[Simon_Fielding]

I'm a hundred pages in - well written, hugely informed on mountaineering, but definitely channelling Dennis Winter as the last word on the war...perhaps strongly influenced by 'Futility' narratives written in the 20s and 30s by climbers who served?

Perhaps we could have a scale and/or unit of measurement to describe the unreconstructed and unrevised nature of WW1 histories? Winters? Clarkes? The Littlewood scale?

I'd say this book is reading 6/10 Winters so far....

[David_Blanchard]

An interview with Wade Davis, discussing 'Into the Silence' can be found here:

My link

David

[michaeldr]

David,

I enjoyed the interview; many thanks for the link

Since watching, I have ordered the book

Thanks again

Michael

[Simon_Fielding]

I think I sounded too negative in my comments - while traditional in its depiction of the war this is a beautifully written and well-researched book: a treat.

[ph0ebus]

I was given this book for Christmas and am working through the meticulous account of the first post War expedition. I was brought up short by a statement on page 234 about war cemeteries. "the carefully manicured cemeteries built after the war by the IWGC, maintained beautifully as memorials to this day, promoted the illusion that there were actual bodies buried beneath the neat rows of individual headstones. The inscriptions remember the dead, but the graves, for the most part, contain nothing but the hopes and dreams of the living."

Would anyone like to comment on this? I have never heard it suggested that the cemeteries are a sham, and wonder if it has been taken up with the author, Wade Davis.

Daggers

I have written to Mr. Davis about the above (politely!) and I eagerly await his response.

-Daniel

[michaeldr]

Simon,

Thank you for your most recent comment above; I appreciate the sincerity you have shown

I had wondered about your comment: “perhaps strongly influenced by 'Futility' narratives written in the 20s and 30s by climbers who served?”

My next remarks must be understood in the context of my not having yet received the book in question; however, I do wonder why we should disregard the “Futility narratives”?

We seek and search for first hand accounts. We rely on the battalions' War Dairies. We are thrilled when a personal journal turns-up in some obscure loft, attic, or cellar.

Then why are we so afraid of the the post-war writings of those who were, after all, first hand observers?

regards

Michael

[Simon_Fielding]

Very good question Michael - I suppose being a child of a 1970s British education (for which I am duly grateful in many ways) I was told the story of the war via 'Futility' narratives and the war poets, and was captivated by the encounter with voices from the war itself that told a different story - I acknowledge an inbuilt bias! I suppose it's less fear rather than a perceived over-familiarity. But I would never presume to second-guess the views of men and women who endured horrors I can only guess at…all are facets of a wider truth that can never fully reveal itself…

[michaeldr]

Simon,

Many thanks for your honest reply

with best regards

Michael

[daggers]

Daniel

Thank you for your input. I have been thinking about a direct approach, but will await your feed back.

When starting the other thread I never expected it would snowball!

daggers

[ph0ebus]

Daniel

Thank you for your input. I have been thinking about a direct approach, but will await your feed back.

When starting the other thread I never expected it would snowball!

daggers

daggers,

PM sent.

-Daniel

[michaeldr]

Completed the book today: my thanks to Alan and all above for bringing it to my attention.

It's very well written and what a great read!

I enjoyed every page, including the Annotated Bibliography with all the details of the research. It might have been helpful to have had referral notes in the main text, but that is a small quibble. Another small point, but nevertheless an annoying one, is the book's finish: why do some American binders not use a three-knife-trimmer? How much do you save by not trimming the fore-edge?

Recommended to all, including the none-climbers

Michael

[hazelclark]

I read the book last year before I became involved with WW1 reading and thoroughly enjoyed it! I therefore did not consider it in the light of subsequent knowledge.

Hazel clark

1st three British expeditions - 1921, 1922, 1924.

Book 'investigates how the carnage of the trenches bled into a desire for redemption at the top of the world'.

Of the 26 climbers 20 had seen front line action including Mallory. 6 had been severely wounded; two others hospitalised by disease at the front and one treated for shell shock.

'for these veterans death had lost its power'. 'They had seen so much of death that life mattered less than the moments of being alive'.

[Simon_Fielding]

Interesting postscript to the book:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17493939

Touching gesture...

[Martin Bennitt]

Just read this book which I was fortunate enough to be given for Christmas. I concur with several posters' views that it is magnificently written, superb on the organisation of the expeditions, the attempts to

climb Everest and the descriptions of Tibet, as well as the conflicts of personalities. The impact of the War on the whole Everest venture and its participants is also well done, but he comes down firmly on the

side of the Lions and Donkeys hypothesis, citing Laffin's 'Butchers and Bunglers' and Winter's 'Haig's Command' among his sources. Presumably the aim is to point up the comparison between the horrors of the war

and the attack on the mountain against tremendous odds but it goes too far. So we get things like "entire British brigades were wiped out" in the first German gas attack in 1915 and "Invoking outdated notions

of fair play to challenge the use of oxygen recalled General Haig's attachment to the horse and his refusal to acknowledge the utility and effectiveness of the machine gun on the Western Front." And this

incident may have occurred at Cambrai in September 1918 -- my knowledge isn't great enough -- but it recalls Cambrai 1917 and the myth of the lone German officer: "One German soldier singlehandedly knocked out

five British tanks. Norton saw the man captured and bayoneted in cold blood."

A good book then but a flawed one. I will probably reread it.

cheers Martin B

[Simon_Fielding]

I'd agree 100% with that review Martin. I loved the book, was in awe of the research, loved the evocation of personalities, but felt the view of the war was unreconstructed and dominated by the 1920s 1930s 'futility' reading.

[michaeldr]

but felt the view of the war was unreconstructed and dominated by the 1920s 1930s 'futility' reading.

Please bear in mind chaps that the 1920s writing on the War is relevant here

If that was the way it was seen then, perhaps these fellows who were climbing in the 1920s also felt the same

Is it likely that those who went off to Everest in the years immediately after the war were subscribers to revisionism?

regards

Michael

[Simon_Fielding]

Sorry to re-tread old ground Michael! I think my objection is that the Laffin / Littlewood perspective of the author is slightly obscuring the perspective of the subjects themselves - just as my Bond / Sheffield bias would...