yjaff Posted 13 August , 2011 Share Posted 13 August , 2011 Hi I am fairly new to this, but have been doing some research on two soldiers in my family and was wondering why even though they both had brothers, why they didn't fight in the war, or did they? My g/g uncle Wilfred Percy Willmott had a brother called Herbert Walter Willmott (son of Alfred Herbert Willmott and Eleanor Brook) who was born in 1888 and died in an air raid in 1943 of WW2. He was married in 1915 so i was wondering if this was why he didn't fight because conscription started with unmarried men in 1915? My other g/g uncle Frederick John Hargreaves had three brothers. The eldest was deaf in one ear so couldn't go, but the others as far as I know were perfectly healthy... Frank Hargreaves Albert Arthur Hargreaves Son of Thomas Alfred Hargreaves and Emily Kent From my grandma's side of the family noone is recorded to have fought in the war and I want to find out why. They had a big buisness that employed about 60 men if that makes any difference. So my great Grandfather also had three brothers, none of them went including him (though later he had medical problems but i dont know when that started) Don't know when any of them were born or died but would be around the time my great grandfather (1886-1941) only know Archie was the youngest! Harold Smith (Died young, but was old enough to be married and had two children, could this be because of the war?) Russell Smith Archie Smith Son of William Smith. Sorry I have so little information, I have looked on CWGC but obviously with such common names and no middle names it is hard to tell! maybe census would help? but any info on these five would be greatly appreciated Sorry for asking so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 August , 2011 Share Posted 13 August , 2011 There are no MIC's for Herbert Walter Willmot(t) but there a few cards for Herbert Willmot(t)'s . He may be one of these, he may not have served overseas and so wouldn't have a MIC or he may been in a 'reserved' occupation. There is one MIC for an Albert A Hargreaves: 21396 Suffolk Regiment & 96602 Tank Corps. For the rest of the men you would need more information to narrow down the possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 13 August , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2011 Yes, I thought it would be unlikely that it would be possible to find anything about Harold, Russell or Archie especially with Smith as the surname! a little more information about the Herbert Willmott found would be good so that I can see if he is the right one! But that Albert A Hargreaves looks promising, if it's not too much could you give me more information about him? in particular his enlistment date is important as i am doing a WW1 project on it, especially as he was born in 1901 which would mean he either lied about his age or joined very late (and that would give me lots to talk about!!!). He was my g/g uncle. i couldn't find A A Hargreaves on CWGC though. Thanks for all your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 August , 2011 Share Posted 13 August , 2011 There's not much on Albert A Hargreaves MIC - he as awarded the British War & Victory Medals only which indicate he was posted abroad only after 1 Jan 1916. Deaths are usually recorded on the MIC but none is shown in this case. You'd need someone familiar with the Suffolk's to give you an idea as to the enlistment date (the standard MIC's don't record enlistment dates). There are also forum experts on the tank corps who should be able to give an idea on the date the number was allocated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 13 August , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2011 ss002d6252 When you found Albert Arthur Hargreaves, where did you find it and what information came with it? It would be really interesting if he did lie about his age as if he is the same as mine he would have been between the ages of 13 and 17, but that could also make it unlikely to be him, i am just hoping for something that could tell me if this is the man I'm looking for. Thanks anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 August , 2011 Share Posted 13 August , 2011 The information comes from his medal index card as held by the National Archives / Ancestry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 16 August , 2011 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2011 Do you have access to anywhere that would tell you when and where he was born, and maybe some of his family, I am sure this would tell me for sure if he is my man. If you don't have the time don't worry, maybe someone else will know who he is. thanks, Yana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 17 August , 2011 Author Share Posted 17 August , 2011 I have tried putting another post about Albert Hargreaves but as I haven't had that many replies, either people don't want to answer! it isn't him or there is no information available, but if there is please help!!!!. If there is anything about the others it would be interesting as I don't know why no one from the Smith family went to war, surely conscription would have forced them to go, does anyone know why they wouldn't have or know if they did? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickLeeds Posted 17 August , 2011 Share Posted 17 August , 2011 I have tried putting another post about Albert Hargreaves but as I haven't had that many replies, either people don't want to answer! it isn't him or there is no information available, but if there is please help!!!!. If there is anything about the others it would be interesting as I don't know why no one from the Smith family went to war, surely conscription would have forced them to go, does anyone know why they wouldn't have or know if they did? thanks Hello, You really need to nail down your family history first then you'll find it a bit easier to start looking at their military service. Start with when and where they were born, who they married, where they were living in 1911 and what occupations they were doing as this sometimes determines what branch of the service they may have joined. If you get these details in, it will make it much easier to begin searching for their service/pensions records if they have survived. (Bear in mind 60-70% of these records were destroyed in the Blitz) For example there are almost 1,000 medal index cards for men named Harold Smith ! Anything you can do to flesh out the background of the men your looking for will give you a better chance at narrowing the search down a bit. Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 17 August , 2011 Author Share Posted 17 August , 2011 Don't know when any of them were born except jasper smith in rugeley, Staffordshire in 1886 then died in 1940 he was the eldest and least likely to have gone as there is no record of it from the family and he had a business that was with aircrafts and may have stopped him from going. Harold smith married Mabel and had Frieda and others, bert Married Maud, Russell Married ?, Archie was the youngest and married May. On ancestry there is a William H Smith M maud gapp in Essex 1913, William was his fathers name, could this be him William Harold smith. Mabe if someone could find the census as I don't have access to them. They may have live around rugeley as jasper was Born there and so might the others. Just a thought! Yana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risca_boy Posted 17 August , 2011 Share Posted 17 August , 2011 Hi Yana I've sent you some census info off line. Use these to find their dates of birth and locations. You can then fill out your family tree, also confirming their details using FreeBMD. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 18 August , 2011 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2011 Right, Thanks to Steve I can now give more information about the family. Harold G (1884) Bertrand(1884) Jasper Raymond (1886-1941) Russell Buckland (1888) Archie Lawton (August 1890) All born in Stafford, Staffordshire, except Russell and Archie in Aston, Warwickshire. By 1911 they were living in Leyton, Essex. Russell and archie were assistant greengrocers after their father, Harold a scholar. hope this give more to go from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJB Posted 18 August , 2011 Share Posted 18 August , 2011 YJ2568, Hope you are making some progress afte all the good advice. I have just been double checking some of the records in my family. I know my grandfather has a medal card. I searched the NA index on-line with his first name and surname. I got no hits. I used the advance search still no hits. Then I added his middle name which is fairly uncommon and found it straigh away. Keep trying. Especially if the names you have may be abreviated or nicknames. I have known so family members to only use their middle name. So may people in the family know them by this. On official records they use their fist name so may be hard to find if you do not know this. Hope this helps you persist in your searching of variants. Sloop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 18 August , 2011 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2011 YJ2568, Hope you are making some progress afte all the good advice. I have just been double checking some of the records in my family. I know my grandfather has a medal card. I searched the NA index on-line with his first name and surname. I got no hits. I used the advance search still no hits. Then I added his middle name which is fairly uncommon and found it straigh away. Keep trying. Especially if the names you have may be abreviated or nicknames. I have known so family members to only use their middle name. So may people in the family know them by this. On official records they use their fist name so may be hard to find if you do not know this. Hope this helps you persist in your searching of variants. Sloop. Thanks for the advise Sloop, will do. I know Bertrand was known as Bert, but that's it. Also they seem to have quite unusual middle names so that could make it easier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 18 August , 2011 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2011 I have found two possible matches on CWGC, his family was living in essex at the time, but i don't know if he went with them so it might not be him... Name:SMITH Initials:H G Nationality:United Kingdom Rank:Private Regiment/Service:Essex Regiment Unit Text:13th Bn. Date of Death:19/04/1917 Service No:35120 Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference:VI. A. 27. Cemetery:ORCHARD DUMP CEMETERY, ARLEUX-EN-GOHELLE There is also this one whos first name is actually Harold- anyone know anything about either of them or anyone you have found that would tell me if he were any of these. these are just suggestions, i don't even known for sure that he died in the war, but i know he died very young so the war sounds like an obvious guess. He married a woman called Mabel, but i dont know her maiden name- could this give more results in a search? Name:SMITH, HAROLD GEORGE Initials:H G Nationality:United Kingdom Rank:Able Seaman Regiment/Service:Royal Navy Unit Text:(RFR/CH/B/4388). H.M.S. "India." Date of Death:08/08/1915 Service No:192680 Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference:10. Memorial:CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL There are also a few results for Russell Buckland Smith on Ancestry under military which look quite promising, but i dont have access to them yet. Yana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now