enlisting under a alias or false name

[RaySearching]

Hi all

Was it an offence under the Army act to enlist in the Army using a False Name or a Alias ?

Whilst I could think of quiet a few reasons for wanting to do so ,

underage/ escape from a unhappy marriage / on the run from the police, To name a few

Was it an offence and punnishable, ? Or was a blind eye just taken to the practice by the recruitment centers

regards Ray

[David_Underdown]

It's not one of the questions on the forms which have warnings about being sentenced to imprisonment with hard labour so far as I've seen. They seem to have been most concerned about mis-statement of previous military service

[Piorun]

I believe it was an offence. There are threads on the Forum. Antony

[Graham Stewart]

Certainly was and you need to read Kings Regulations regarding it. It could actually mean you were denied your medals at the end of the War if you continued to serve without disclosing the truth about yourself. The same also applied to those enlisting underage and keeping quiet about it.

[auchonvillerssomme]

I started to research some of these men, my grandfather served under an alias during WW2. My first search threw up over 3,200 names on CWGC who died during WW1 of men who had alternative names listed, in one case 3 aliases, if you add those commemorated under the name they used and those who survived there must have been many thousands.

[RaySearching]

Hi

Having looked at various threads on this forum, enlisting under a alias, serving under a alias

ect

It’s apparent that the subject in itself is a bit of a minefield

I now believe there must have been hundreds if not thousands of soldiers that enlisted under a alias or a false name and were subsequently Killed in action

Recorded as such “Killed in Action” under there alias, having there alias inscribed on their Cwgc headstone who’s true identities will never be known ,

Making researching the individual soldiers who did so almost impossible

Whilst researching soldiers from my home town I am coming across numerous instances of soldiers who upon enlisting Lied About their age and quite a large number who give a false name

including some who made up incorrect details about there next of kin

I am now of the opinion that this practice was more common than I was previously led to believe

Regards Ray

[Hardrations]

There is a book on this about lads who lied about age and name I read awhile back. Yes there are numerous lads buried under assumed names. Many grieving parents assumed that their son had been accepted by the army under false names and never knew how or where they died. Especially in the last year or two of the war when recruiting was a problem. My uncle enlisted in the Black Watch (Cdn) in WW 1 under a false name and age. On the first few times going over the top he realized that this was a serious matter, no longer a game. He contacted his school teacher to let her know where he was. She of course contacted his parents who immediately went to the Minister of Defense and had him with drawn from the front lines. In turn he was sent with an older soldier ( an old vet) who was well into his 60's who fibbed his past age to get into it. He received his medals with no problem after the war, but only got an honourable discharge in 1955 from WW 1. He re-enlisted in 1939 was accepted ( Why not. A trained soldier with trade no less) and spent the next 6 years over seas. Returned a different man according to my aunt. Two wars and the Great Depression, I guess he was a changed man. He also has two types of attestation papers each one under his false name and one under his real name for WW 1. Incidentally he re-enlisted with his buddy who enlisted with him in WW 1. As my dad said, " A couple of coolies in the bar and they thought it was a good idea". Also he died still irritated that his father had him taken out action in WW 1

[centurion]

I believe the reasons why using an alias was officially an offence (but one which was often "winked" at) go back well before WW1. Way back when enlistment bounties were in terms of then money values relatively good some men would enlist, take the money and desert and then enlist in another regiment, take the money and desert etc etc. To do this they had to use aliases. Then later when the Cardwell Army Reforms were introduced and enlistment was restricted to 6 years (in an attempt to build up a reserve) many men found themselves re enlisting under a false name. Kipling describes this in Barrack Room Ballads "Back to the Army Again" http://www.online-literature.com/kipling/barrack-room-ballads/22/ If the poem has it right every one knew it was happening but didn't ask questions.

"The sergeant arst no questions, but 'e winked the other eye,

'E sez to me, "'Shun!" an' I shunted, the same as in days gone by;

For 'e saw the set o' my shoulders, an' I couldn't 'elp 'oldin' straight

When me an' the other rookies come under the barrick-gate."

"Next week I'll 'ave 'em fitted; I'll buy me a swagger-cane;

They'll let me free o' the barricks to walk on the Hoe again

In the name o' William Parsons, that used to be Edward Clay,

An' -- any pore beggar that wants it can draw my fourpence a day!"

[Ron Clifton]

Hello all

Enlisting under a false name was NOT one of the offences specified in the Army Act. However, a man who did so could be court-martialled (or dealt with by his CO) for "giving a false answer on attestation" which was an offence. A man might be tried if he had used his enlistment to conceal previous service, especially if by doing so he concealed desertion, or obtained a fresh free issue of kit.

The fact that King's Regulations contaied detailed instructions as to how to change your "Army name" in your service record suggests that, as centurion says, the mere fact of giving a false name was "winked at".

Ron

[RaySearching]

Hi all thanks for the replies

I am a little wiser now

an example of what we are up against

Here is one for the genealogists lies possible lies and mistruths on his attestation papers

Lance Serjeant GEORGE EDWARDES

9854, 2nd Bn., York and Lancaster Regiment

killed in action on 23 October 1914

( from SDGW Born St Lukes Middlesbrough enlisted Barnsley resided Middlesbrough )

PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL

Georges service papers have survived

He enlisted in Barnsley on 30th Dec 1910 aged 22 and 11 months old his place of birth is given as

St Lukes Middlesbrough on his service papers

Firstly I cannot find any record of a parish of St Lukes in Middlesbrough , Secondly there is no record of a George Edwardes being born within 5 years either side of his date of birth ( 1887) on free Bmd or or in Middlesbrough birth deaths and marriages registry office (Tees Valley Indexes)

His name cannot be found on any of the censuses at Middlesbrough

His next of kin is given as mother Mrs M Edwardes of 9 Fleetham Street Middlesbrough and brother (Y) Thomas on his service papers

His alleged mother is not on the 1911 census at Middlesbrough taken just 3 months afters George enlisted

9 Fleetham Street Middlesbrough is occupied by the McGinn family on the census

His place of residence is given as Middlesbrough on SDGW

Prior to enlisting he was employed as a canvasser for 2 years and 10 months at Barnsley where he resided

A character reference from his former employer is among his service records stating that he left to join the service after being employed by them for the that period of time

According to his papers

Prior to embarkation to France he left Limerick where he was residing with his fiancee a Miss Mary Croker of 16 Pennywell Lane Limerick Ireland later of 20 Charlotte Quay Limerick Ireland

Upon his death his fiancee Miss Mary Croker claimed his belongings and his medals

His next of kin being mother and brother crossed out on his service papers

Lies have been told was George Edwardes his real name what had he to hide?

regards Ray

[centurion]

Who knows but there would likely be an Irish connection. If the employer's reference is not faked then he must have been operating in Middlesbrough as Edwardes for some time but he has a fiancée in Limerick and the address he gives is occupied by a family with an Irish name (possibly he had been a lodger or perhaps even was a McGinn himself). I'd suspect there may have been an incident in Limerick that made it expedient for him to leave the country and change his name.

[ss002d6252]

There is a St Lukes Hospital in Middlesbrough which was a Victorian built asylum but its still a possibility.

[Ron Clifton]

Bear in mind, too, that the parishes quoted in census returns and BMD records is the civil parish, which may not be the same as the ecclesiastical parish (though it usually is). But if, as the last three posts show, there is a "story" behind his enlistment, it may be that he used the hospital name as yet another part of the web of partial truths surrounding his enlistment.

The official records of his service, from which both the SDGW and CWGC were derived, therefore show what he told the recruiter, and not necessarily the truth.

Ron

[Hardrations]

I know of one case in 1962 of a lad who re-enlisted under a false name. His reason was that on leaving the Black Watch (Cdn) he and the C.O. were not on the best of terms. He re-enlisted in to the RCA this time and after about 2 months in depot he realized he would be nailed as of course security investigations and finger prints would out him. He retired a Sgt.

[centurion]

There is a St Lukes Hospital in Middlesbrough which was a Victorian built asylum but its still a possibility.

In the Middlesbrough Registration District in the 1891 census there is listed a street called St Luke's Cottages

[RaySearching]

Hi

This thread seems to have taken a detour as some threads do

I am of the opinion that the inclusion of Middlesbrough on the records of George Edwardes is a red Herring

Regarding Ron Cliftons quote ( Bear in mind, too, that the parishes quoted in census returns and BMD records is the civil parish, which may not be the same as the ecclesiastical parish (though it usually is).

I can find no record of a civil parish Parish called St Lukes in Middlesbrough

regarding St Luke's ( now a Hospital ) in Middilebrough it opened as Lunatic Asylum on 15th June 1898 a year after George was Born

St Luke's Cottages which Centurion has pointed out were part of the complex ,St Luke's Lunatic Asylum ceased to be an asylum around 1960 when most of it was demolished and a hospital (St Luke's hospital now Known as James Cook Hospital was built on the site although there is a wing at the Hospital that treats people with Mental disorders still known as, and called St Luke's

if indeed George was Born in Middlesbrough George Edwardes Must be an alias ,As pointed out earlier the is no record Of A George Edwardes Birth in the records at Middlesbrough

and from my earlier post

(Prior to enlisting he was employed as a canvasser for 2 years and 10 months at Barnsley where he resided

A character reference from his former employer is among his service records stating that he left to join the service after being employed by them for the that period of time)

I am of the opinion that George Edwardes identity will forever be a Mystery

I could be wrong ! again

regards Ray

[centurion]

St Luke's Cottages which Centurion has pointed out were part of the Complex St Luke's Lunatic Asylum

No that's not what I pointed out. Look at the dates - St Luke's Cottages was already a street before St Luke's Hospital came into existence (and is still around today). This would suggest that there was once a St Luke's church (and therefore parish).

However I think the evidence suggests that Edwardes was a false name but one he had used in Middlesbrough well before he enlisted. He may well have based his new identity on places and names around the borough. Enlisting in the peace time army was a good way to establish a new identity - when you were discharged you would have a set of 'official' papers with the necessary names etc on them. The fact that his "next of kin" were crossed out on his papers but his fiancée named might suggest that before going to war he had realised that he might not come back and requested the necessary adjustments.

[RaySearching]

Quote from centurion ( In the Middlesbrough Registration District in the 1891 census there is listed a street called St Luke's Cottages )

True (In the Middlesbrough registration District ) but not in Middlesbrough the street was in in South Stockton

the original St Lukes Cottages in Middlesbrough part of the Asylum have been replaced with new Builds which are in the grounds of St Luke's Hospital

they can be seen quite clearly on Google earth

[David_Underdown]

If he were RC it's possible he would give the name of the Catholic parish