R.E. Anti-Gas Establishment (at UCL)

[sionyn]

Hi,

A couple of the men I've been trying to track down as members of the Welsh Students' Company RAMC,- but for whom there were no MIC's
- have recently turned up on the AVL's as having been transferred to the Royal Engineers based at the Anti-Gas Establishment,- which I've since found was based at University College London, Gower St, WC1.
As I still have some "missing " names from my RAMC list - I suspect that possibly some of them may have been transferred there also.

Obviously, as these men were UK-based, there isn't a Medal Card for them, and in the absence of any Army Service / Pension records, it appears that the only other record of their regimental numbers is buried in the various county Absent Voters Lists (if they were 21 or older i.e. of voting age).

A quick check through the adjacent RE numbers (279200- 279250) on the NA website shows large gaps in the sequence ("my" RAMC two are the ones in brackets - no MICs):

279200 Hunt...279203 Warnett................(279224 Evans), 279225 Bennett......279229 Manley.......(279231 Humphreys, Sgt).........279238 McWilliam........279249 Anderson
& the MIC sequence is then more-or-less complete up to 279300

(- there are also gaps in the sequence immediately preceding the above: 279190 Christy.....279195 Osborn, 279196 Carroll...... etc)

A quick search through other county AVLs available on the web came up with several names, but only one with a number :
Worcs AVL's - Beckett, Cyril Martin St John R.E. Anti-Gas Est., Gower St., W.C.1, Sergt., 279212 - [no MIC on the NA website]

There is also one mentioned on the War Graves Photographic Project:
Davies, John, Anti-Gas Est, London, Royal Engineers 279219 Sgt. (of Rhosddu Wrexham) [could be one of my RAMC men - one of the "gaps" in the sequence]

- which begs the question: - were these other similarly-numbered RE men also working there?
- has anyone else come across some of the numbers in this sequence in the AVL's? (not to be confused with the WR/ -prefixed RE numbers!)
- has anyone compiled a list of RE men that worked at this establishment, or knows of any other type of staff list for this place ?

(it would be a great help if one of the major genealogical websites undertook the task of digitising all the available AVL's to help fill in these MIC gaps - (hint, hint !) )

Sion

[Terry_Reeves]

Sion

You need this document at the National Archives:

WO 142/277 Royal Engineers war establishment and personnel at Porton Experimental Station; Anti-gas Department, University College, London and Wembley Experimental Station 1918

TR

[sionyn]

Terry,

Many thanks for that, - does it actually name the personnel working at those sites, or just give a breakdown of the staffing structure and their duties?

Apologies - listing of the 2792xx sequence in my first posting was incorrect :

(Bracketed numbers = no MICs, data from sources shown) ( ...= gaps)

279200 HENRY spr

..

279203 WARRNETT qms (ex-RAMC qms)

..

[279212] BECKETT sgt (from Worcs AVL)

..

[297219] DAVIES sgt (from CWGC )

..

(279224) EVANS sgt (from Denbs. AVL, ex-RAMC)

..

(279231) HUMPHREYS sgt (from Wxm AVL, ex-RAMC)

..

279233 LAURENCE pnr (ex-RE, ex-RAMC)

..

279238 McWILLIAM sgt

..

279249-279300 almost all MICs present (nearly alphabetical!)

- Looking at the 279200-279248 sequence above - it looks like most of them are Sergeants! - is this unusual?

Sion

[Terry_Reeves]

Sion

I have a copy of this document somewhere, I'll have a look over the weekend for you. It would not be unusual for these men to be promoted fora posting such as this. I suspect these men had some sort of experience in chemistry or other relevant subject, either as an undergraduate or graduate, hence their posts at UCL. I will do a bit of digging.

TR

[Tucker Buck's grandson]

Rather than starting a new thread I thought I would post on this one as it gives my question a background context.

We have a local casualty commemorated on our village War Memorial i.e. William Lambert Lawson who served for the Royal Engineers Pioneer Corps and whose final attachment on the CWGC database is described as 44240 - RMAC - RE - Anti-Gas Department who died on 1st November 1918. I found this thread when trying to determine more about that description.

William who was born in Cardiff and lived there as a child whilst his father was serving as a Customs Officer there is buried at the Cardiff Cathays Cemetery so unlike in many other war deaths the place of commemoration gives no clue as to the location or cause of death. His military records also provide no clue. We do know that he died in London which coincides with the Anti-Gas Department's location at UCL London.

Web information on the Anti-Gas Department refers mainly to the leading scientists and military personnel who managed it. I have contacted the original initiator of this thread if he ever obtained the Natonal Archives document referred to in an earlier response.

I am wondering whether because of the nature of the work involved this might be a sensitive area or maybe I am being paranoid and William died in a simple accident that was not deemed worthy of recording. I guess obtaining a copy of his death certificate is the logical solution if we want a complete account in the commemoration pamphlet we are producing.

Looked at the Times Archive for reports on the Anti Gas Department and discovered that Colonel Harrison it's Head died of infulenza and was buried on the 8th November 1918. As that was the year of the Spanish flu pandemic maybe William also died of influenza.

[Guest steelmagnolia]

This seemed an appropriate thread on which to ask if anyone has come across any reference to my uncle, Corporal Abraham (aka Alfred) Blitz, RE no. 368557, RAMC No. 100312, who was in the anti gas unit at University College in 1915-1918 ? He died 10 years later and we believe that he may have been exposed to gas during his time there. If anyone has any information of what happened to the enlisted soldiers in this unit during those years, I would very much appreciate hearing from them.

[Guest theview]

Steelmagnolia, I've just come across your post. I'm currently researching Abraham Blitz too! I'm concentrating on his time during WW1 and wonder if we could collaborate? Anne-Marie

[petestarling]

The Defensive Gas department was set up at the Royal Army Medical College Millbank under Colonel Horrocks. Some work was done at UCL. All the design and testing of anti gas equipment from the black veiling respirator to the SBR was carried out there. Most of the testing was done on rats, pigs and humans including soldiers in what was termed the lethal chamber in the cellars at Millbank. Here they were subjected to gas whilst wearing helmets and SBR's.

I lecture on the role of the RAMC and gas Warfare to, amongst others, the WFA.

Pete

[Guest theview]

I would love to know more about the Anti-Gas Establishment as I'd never heard of it until a couple of days ago. What exactly where they doing? Did the soldiers go overseas (Abraham has a medal card and received the Victory & British medal - although that could have been because of other work in the RAMC or RE) or were they solely UK based? Any clues as to where I should look next?

Importantly.... were they volunteers for this work?

[Captain Stoddy]

Apologies for coming so late to this thread, but I have an interest in 279219 Sgt John Davies RE (mis-spelt by CWGC) who died 27 Nov 1918 in Nottingham. I have been working on our school War Memorial and I have only positively identified John in the last few weeks (I only had the name 'J Davis' to go on). Pre-war he was the Maths teacher at Blandford Secondary School before moving to Brecon.

Does anybody here have anything else on him?

Thanks

Niall