Age Limits in WW1

[MotherMave]

Dear Forum, I cannot find the death of a Soldier, whose name and his Son's name is on our Cenotaph. both their names were William T.(Thomas) FELLOWS and the younger one is named as such on the cenotaph,with (Jun.) by his name and his Father just as W. FELLOWS (Sen.). I have found the details on William (Junior) However on the 1911 census, Father was age 38 and I do not know when he either enlisted or was "called up". In any case he would have been over 40 years of age, so is it possible that the William FELLOWS, Father, would have been too old?

1911 census FELLOWS SUSANNAH (RG14PN33934 RG78PN1960 RD619 SD3 ED3 SN283)

Address 6 UPPER BROOK ST CONNALS QUAY County Flintshire

District Holywell Subdistrict Flint

Enumeration District 3 Parish Connahs Quay

FELLOWS, WILLIAM HEAD MARRIED M 38 BREAKER DOWN WEST BROMWICH

FELLOWS, SUSANNAH (Married 17 years) F 38 WEST BROMWICH

FELLOWS, WILLIAM SON SINGLE M 16 SCRAP CUTTER WEST BROMWICH

FELLOWS, JOSEPH SON M 15 ERRAND BOY WEST BROMWICH

FELLOWS, VIOLET DAUGHTER F 13 CONNAH'S QUAY

I have searched and searched, both on Ancestry and the CWGC website and cannot find William FELLOWS (sen.) Any ideas would be greaty appreciated. Many thanks in advance. Mavis Williams

[David B]

Mothermave,

Sort answer - no. Both my g/fathers served, one was 47 when he joined, the other 46 (but the army had him as 48 as he originally joined by putting up his age by two years

when he originally joined in 1885).

[Magnumbellum]

William (Senior) would have been too old to have been conscripted in 1916. Power was taken in 1918 to call up men up to age 50, but I have not found much evidence that many were called up as old as that, and it is likely that any that were actually called up were used for "rear" duties rather than the front line.

I am not sure what the official upper age was for volunteers, but the power to call up older men suggests that the volunteer age limit might have been 50. Also, although much has been made of youngsters falsely "upping" their age to enlist, not much is said about older men falsely giving a younger age to enlist. I have heard of one man who was thought by his mates to have been as old as 6O serving in the Pioneer Corps, admitting that he had falsified his age.

For William (Senior)'s name to appear on the local war memorial suggests that people locally were persuaded that he had both served and been killed. The non-appearance of his name in both military and CWGC records raises a possibility that he enlisted under a false name.

[headgardener]

For William (Senior)'s name to appear on the local war memorial suggests that people locally were persuaded that he had both served and been killed. The non-appearance of his name in both military and CWGC records raises a possibility that he enlisted under a false name.

Possibly, but a more likely explantion is that he was a member of an essentially civilian organization such as the VTC or Mercantile Marine, and that he died from illness rather than from 'war-related' causes. In that instance his death wouldn't be covered by CWGC, hence his non-appearance on their records. There are plenty of well-recorded instances like this, they crop up on this forum regularly.

MotherMave;

Are you sure that you've got the right names? The only W.T. Fellows that I found on CWGC was in the Gloucestershire regt (MIC gives his first name as 'Walter' instead of 'William'). CWGC lists his father's name as Walter James Fellows rather than 'William' and the mother's name as Florence rather than 'Susannah'..

As an aside, a surprisingly large number of very overage men appear to have served during WW1; just do a search of this forum for 'old soldiers', 'oldest soldiers', etc. Several served well into their 60's and even into their 70's. A few are recorded as being in their 80's!

[Black Watch]

My GGGF enlisted 1917 after two of his sons had been killed, he was 52 at the time, but lasted only a few months before he was declared unfit.

[mike carty]

The oldest soldier i could find that was a casualty was Lt H Webber 7th South Lancs. He was Battalion Transport Officer and killed by a shell burst on 21st July 1916 he was 68.

He is buried in Dartmoor Cemetery

[auchonvillerssomme]

There are many threads on this subject and basically it appears that the official ages limits, upper and lower, were not adhered to either by the services or the service personnel.

Name: CLEMENTS, GEORGE WILLIAM VALENTINE

Initials: G W V

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Captain (Quartermaster)

Regiment/Service: 1st (Royal) Dragoons

Age: 85

Date of Death: 03/03/1916

Additional information: Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. Son of the late William and Charlotte Clements, of Norwich; husband of Jane Elizabeth Clements, of 3, Chapel Field North, Norwich. Served in the Crimean War, 1853-56 (Alma, Balaklava, Inkerman and Sebastopol) and Turkish Medal. (One of the oldest known service deaths). Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 24. 167.

Cemetery: NORWICH CEMETERY, Norfolk

Name: THOMPSON, ROSS

Initials: R

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Colonel

Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers

Secondary Regiment: 2nd Queen Victoria's Own Sappers and Miners

Secondary Unit Text: attd.

Age: 81

Date of Death: 05/12/1919

Additional information: Son of Ross and Margaret Thompson (nee Livingstone); husband of Fanny Angeline Thompson (nee Crewe). Served in the Afghaniston Campaign (1879-80). Buried in Bangalore (Hosur Road) Cemetery. (One of the oldest know service deaths).. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Face 5.

Memorial: MADRAS 1914-1918 WAR MEMORIAL, CHENNAI

and of course Webber aready mentioned who was the oldest known battle death.

Name: WEBBER, HENRY

Initials: H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lieutenant

Regiment/Service: South Lancashire Regiment

Unit Text: 7th Bn.

Age: 67

Date of Death: 21/07/1916

Awards: Mentioned in Despatches

Additional information: Son of William Webber, M.D., and Eliza Webber (nee Preston); husband of the late Emily Webber (nee Morris). Native of Horley, Surrey. For over 40 years a member of the London Stock Exchange. Henry Webber is the oldest known battle death recorded for the First World War.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: I. E. 54.

Cemetery: DARTMOOR CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

[ATNOMIS]

and of course Webber aready mentioned who was the oldest known battle death.

Name: WEBBER, HENRY

Initials: H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lieutenant

Regiment/Service: South Lancashire Regiment

Unit Text: 7th Bn.

Age: 67

Date of Death: 21/07/1916

Awards: Mentioned in Despatches

Additional information: Son of William Webber, M.D., and Eliza Webber (nee Preston); husband of the late Emily Webber (nee Morris). Native of Horley, Surrey. For over 40 years a member of the London Stock Exchange. Henry Webber is the oldest known battle death recorded for the First World War.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: I. E. 54.

Cemetery: DARTMOOR CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

I have a picture of Webber.

On another Hard drive I'll post asap

Simon

[ATNOMIS]

[MotherMave]

Thank you Atnomis, Auchonvillerssomme, the Conscript, Black Watch, HeadGardener, Magnumbellum and rgartillery for your replies and my sincere apologies for the LONG delay in thanking you, I found it fascinating to read about these brave men. I got caught up with looking at the other men on the Cenotaph and have just found your postings, most knowledgeable as usual. Thank you again. Mavis

[CGM]

The story of Charles Ingram, who volunteeered when he was aged 59, can be seen in the thread here.

(Scroll down).

[paulmartin77]

Just out of interest, what where the lower age limits? My great great uncle's TA discharge papers have him enlisting at 14. Unfortunately he died 4 years later of dysentery after rejoining.

[Sharon]

On 28/05/2011 at 11:13, MotherMave said:

Dear Forum, I cannot find the death of a Soldier, whose name and his Son's name is on our Cenotaph. both their names were William T.(Thomas) FELLOWS and the younger one is named as such on the cenotaph,with (Jun.) by his name and his Father just as W. FELLOWS (Sen.). I have found the details on William (Junior) However on the 1911 census, Father was age 38 and I do not know when he either enlisted or was "called up". In any case he would have been over 40 years of age, so is it possible that the William FELLOWS, Father, would have been too old?

1911 census FELLOWS SUSANNAH (RG14PN33934 RG78PN1960 RD619 SD3 ED3 SN283)

Address 6 UPPER BROOK ST CONNALS QUAY County Flintshire

District Holywell Subdistrict Flint

Enumeration District 3 Parish Connahs Quay

FELLOWS, WILLIAM HEAD MARRIED M 38 BREAKER DOWN WEST BROMWICH

FELLOWS, SUSANNAH (Married 17 years) F 38 WEST BROMWICH

FELLOWS, WILLIAM SON SINGLE M 16 SCRAP CUTTER WEST BROMWICH

FELLOWS, JOSEPH SON M 15 ERRAND BOY WEST BROMWICH

FELLOWS, VIOLET DAUGHTER F 13 CONNAH'S QUAY

I have searched and searched, both on Ancestry and the CWGC website and cannot find William FELLOWS (sen.) Any ideas would be greaty appreciated. Many thanks in advance. Mavis Williams

This is my family, their daughter,Violet was my great grandmother 

[MotherMave]

Hi Sharon,  

Thank you for mentioning that you are the Great Grandchild of Violet.

I have researched both William Fellows, father and son, their stories are on flintshirewarmemorials.com.

https://www.flintshirewarmemorials.com/memorials/connahs-quay/connahs-quay-soldiers/w-fellows/ and https://www.flintshirewarmemorials.com/memorials/connahs-quay/connahs-quay-soldiers/w-fellows-jnr/

If you have any more information, I could add it to their pages, so that they are truly remembeed, also if I have anything wrong, please tell me.

Regards,

Mavis Williams

[Sharon]

Thank you for your reply, I will be looking at the info you’ve collected in them as soon as I finish this txt 

I wish I knew more them, I remember my grandma talking fondly of her brother William, she lived to the ripe old age of 86, and her brother Joseph was 101 when he passed but they lived in such a fascinating times I just wish I had the understanding to ask her so many questions 

I also have a letter he (William) sent to his parents from the sister ship of the titanic but the name I can’t remember at the moment but it’s on white star paper 

[MotherMave]

Hi Sharon,  

Thank you for mentioning that you are the Great Grandchild of Violet.

I have researched both William Fellows, father and son, their stories are on flintshirewarmemorials.com.

https://www.flintshirewarmemorials.com/memorials/connahs-quay/connahs-quay-soldiers/w-fellows/ and https://www.flintshirewarmemorials.com/memorials/connahs-quay/connahs-quay-soldiers/w-fellows-jnr/

If you have any more information, I could add it to their pages, so that they are truly remembeed, also if I have anything wrong, please tell me.

Regards,

Mavis Williams

[MotherMave]

Thank you for replying, it is so good when relatives reply, as I start with a blank page and hope that I am getting everything correct.

I hope that you approve of my research, and it would be great if you could scan the letter, I could add it to his page.

Thanks again for getting in touch.

Regards, Mavis

[Matlock1418]

Pte. William Thomas FELLOWS, 12763, Royal Welsh Fusiliers https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/751488/william-fellows KiA 20-11-1916

Also has pension cards at WFA/Fold3 - Mother, Susannah, 6 Upper Brook Street, Connah's Quay got a dependant's pension of 12/- pw from 12/6/17 for life 

9th Royal Welsh Fusiliers War Diary https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353063 - currently free to download fron the National Archive [after free registration] - unlikely to mention by name but should give general background leading to his death.

M

[MotherMave]

Thank you so much for the National Archives link M, I didn't know about that.   I can add more to the pages of the two William FELLOWS, all being well.

Thank you so much,

Mavis

Edited 13 February , 2023 by MotherMave
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