German Îmmigrant Descendants

[CGM]

I can recommend ALEXANDRA PALACE, a hidden history, by Janet Harris. Tempus. ISBN 0-7524-3636-8

This book chronicles the hidden past of the palace and details the episode in the palace's history when it became home to thousands of German civilian internees during and after the First World War.

Carl Turk, the great-uncle of Janet Harris, was imprisoned there from 1915 to 1919.

Regards

CGM

[Wdragon]

That would be very interesting. I thank you.

Here it is, a poignant read -

System number 003128981

Cataloguing level Minimal record

Author - personal Rocker, Rudolf, 1873-1958.

Title Alexandra Palace Internment Camp in the First World War, 1914-1918. [Compiled from notes made by R. Rocker the elder, completed and edited by his son, Rudolf Rocker, and “W. Stz.”]

Publisher/year ff. 68. 1918.

Physical descr. fol.

General note Reproduced from typewriting.

Added name ROCKER, Rudolf, the Younger.

STZ., W.

[Ken S.]

If I'm reading this correctly, here's another German who enlisted with the CEF

Joseph Bera - 2517310

http://data2.archives.ca/cef/well2/237747a.gif

[dfaulder]

I hope I've posted in the correction section.

My question is, were only descendants of German Immigrants whose parent/s had become naturalised, "permiited" to enlist?

I'm extending my Hohenlohe research of Pork Butchers who had emigrated to GB, to those who enlisted in the war, i.e. Hohenrein, Bareis, etc., although these are probably but just a few.

As other have pointed out, at one stage in the war, (assuming correct age) you were either "British" - and conscripted, or "German" and interned. In my family research I came across this London Gazette entry:

I PAUL CUTHBERT PETRIE, heretofore called Paul Cuthbert Steinthal, of Mount Stead, Ben Rhydding, in the county of York, Merchant, now serving as Major of the 4th West Riding Howitzer Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery Territorial Force), being a British subject, born in England of natural born British parents, give public notice, that (as declared and evidenced by deed under my hand and seal dated the 29th July, 1915, and enrolled in the Central Office of the Supreme Court of Judicature on the 10th August, 1915) I have assumed the surname of Petrie (being the maiden surname of my Mother) in lieu of the surname of Steinthal, and that I intend henceforth to sign, use and be known by the surname of Petrie.—Dated the 10th day of August, 1915.

PAUL CUTHBERT PETRIE.

(His siblings also changed their name) For more details search this forum for Petrie or Steinthal (or read the linked document).

I think being born of natural born British Parents was an important criteria - whether this was an "official" criteria I am not sure.

David

[Schuler]

As other have pointed out, at one stage in the war, (assuming correct age) you were either "British" - and conscripted, or "German" and interned. In my family research I came across this London Gazette entry:

(His siblings also changed their name) For more details search this forum for Petrie or Steinthal (or read the linked document).

I think being born of natural born British Parents was an important criteria - whether this was an "official" criteria I am not sure.

David

Thank you for the above post David. I'm looking into the Steinthals, too. I'm not sure on two counts - conscripted or voluntarily enlisted.

I thank all of you who have contributed to this thread. Although I am primarly interested in the lives of the Germans who emigrated from the Hohenlohe district in Germany (the pork butchers) and how they adapted to British life, there is nothing that doesn't interest me about the lives of English or German citizens, before and during the two world wars.

I was researching a family for a friend of mine in Germany and came across the Sieber family, living at 52 Mile End Road South Shields, (Pork Butcher, what else lol). John Frederick Louis Sieber of Temp 2/Lieutenant, East Yorkshire Regiment, 6th Battalion, died of wounds in France. As often, in German families, the names are handed down, I assumed it was his father but on CWGC, I see it is the son and on the probate Agenda on Ancestry he named John Frederick Sieber in the will, who obviously is his father as JFL Sieber died 19 years' old.

[eltoro1960]

At the start of the war , all the Germans and Austrians in my village were interned and many held at Edinburgh Castle, however one family the Hoffmans were not as Mrs Hoffman was a Scot and their son Karl was dual nationality, he enlisted in the Amy and served with the MG Corps, I wouldn't have given a lot for his chances had he been captured. Interestingly the Austrians were released after a few montha and allowed back down the pit to work.

One of the older Germans,whose name escapes me just now sadly, died of illness in captivity early 1915, he was a painter and decorator to trade and the local paper recorded that he was "well liked and respected, his funeral was well attended by many locals".

John

[corisande]

The state of paranoia in England resulted in Anti German riots. See for example

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/spotlights/p_riots.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-German_sentiment

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4423

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43996

A pork butcher's shop with a German name over the do was, you might say, an open invitation to break the window and remove the contents

A number of families of German origin changed their names, as others have pointed out in this thread. It makes research difficult. One of the men who escaped death on Bloody Sunday in Nov 1920 ws a man called Peel, it took a lot of work to establish he was born Ratsch (his life on this link) in England to German born parents. He changed his name when he enlisted in 1915 to Peel and used that from then on

[bill24chev]

. He changed his name when he enlisted in 1915 to Peel and used that from then on

Good morning.

I wonder, did he choose the name "Peel" as an ironic symbol brecause his parents where interned in that town on the IofM?

I know IoM was used for internment in WW2 but was the island used in WW1?

[corisande]

I wonder, did he choose the name "Peel" as an ironic symbol because his parents where interned in that town on the I of M?

Nothing so poetic, his mother remarried when he was 20 to a Mr Peel, and her new name was the one he adopted when he signed up at the age of 30.

[Le_Treport]

{The War Office} issued ACI 1209 on 17 June 1916. This stated that all recruits of German, Austrian, Hungarian and Turkish parentage were to be sent to the Middlesex Regiment, which was to raise a special Works battalion for them. This came into being as the 30th Middlesex the following month and soon became known as the 'Kaiser's Own'. The ACI also laid down that all serving aliens of enemy parentage should be transferred to this battalion. It was soon over establishment and so, in September, the 31st (Works) Battalion was also formed.

Glad to have found this info as it is useful to me! My grandfather (Adolf Berckefeldt) served in the Middlesex Regiment - and I've been trying to work out which Battalion he was in, so the 30th or 31st seems most likely. His No. was prefixed (on his medal card) with a G/ would that give any further info? I had wondered if he was in the Public Schools Battalion as he attended Bedford School.

[CarylW]

..... Although I am primarly interested in the lives of the Germans who emigrated from the Hohenlohe district in Germany (the pork butchers) and how they adapted to British life, there is nothing that doesn't interest me about the lives of English or German citizens, before and during the two world wars......

SwissGill

I could pass on an article to you from the Birkenhead News 1914 about 8 German men, all are named, who were in the Borough Police Court "..charged on remand, as alien enemies, not provided with a residence permit with having unlawfully continued to reside in a prohibited area, to wit, Birkenhead..."

Interestingly the article states that "with one exception they all bore the appearance of Englishmen and not of foreigners.." Quite sad because some of them had wives and families, didn't have any money or means to leave, wanted to stay in the area and one of them said that he had bever been apart from his wife, but that was how it was at the time and they were particularly edgy around the Merseyside region because of all the docks and shipbuilding going on at Cammell Lairds.

I don't know how it was in other areas at that time but the newspapers were full of spy stories and innocent people coming under suspicion. One man was 'arrested' by a group of Boy Scouts because he had a handlebar moustache and they thought he looked German!

Headlines:

The German Arrests in Birkenhead

All the Accused sent to prison.....

If interested please PM me your e-mail address and I'll sent the whole article to you

Caryl

[David_Underdown]

Glad to have found this info as it is useful to me! My grandfather (Adolf Berckefeldt) served in the Middlesex Regiment - and I've been trying to work out which Battalion he was in, so the 30th or 31st seems most likely. His No. was prefixed (on his medal card) with a G/ would that give any further info? I had wondered if he was in the Public Schools Battalion as he attended Bedford School.

G usually just means General Service - ie a wartime only enlistment, regulars' numbers were prefixed L

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Don't forget that a number of men of German descent would probably have anglicised their names to avoid anti-German sentiment, Weiss to White and similar for surnames, and likewise for equivalents of forenames. Even the Royal House changed its name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor, and of course the Battenbergs became the Mountbattens.

I've just found an interesting example of this in a Yeoman Rifles officer who joined the battalion in October 1916, Capt. Nevil Alexander Beechman, later Alec Beechman, MP: a very different case from more recent or poorer German immigrants in some ways of course.

His father was a German-born clock and watch importer, Nathan Bechmann, naturalized British in 1887. The family didn't change their name till after 1911. He was head boy at Westminster School when the war broke out, joined the 5th East Surrey Regt and was then attached to the 21/KRRC and went to France in Sept 1916. He won the MC for gallantry in 1917, and was badly wounded. After the war he was at Balliol, President of the Oxford Union, called to the bar, Liberal MP for St Ives 1937 -50, KC, holding various Govt posts in WW2, and died in 1965. (Main sources: London Gazette online; Times reports in Times Digital Archive; MIC and census records on Ancestry and findmy past).

Although Beechman sounds English enough it doesn't seem to have been an English name, or not a common one, and the KRRC Chronicle for 1917 gets it wrong, listing him as Beecham.

Liz

[Schuler]

SwissGill

I could pass on an article to you from the Birkenhead News 1914 about 8 German men, all are named, who were in the Borough Police Court "..charged on remand, as alien enemies, not provided with a residence permit with having unlawfully continued to reside in a prohibited area, to wit, Birkenhead..."

Interestingly the article states that "with one exception they all bore the appearance of Englishmen and not of foreigners.." Quite sad because some of them had wives and families, didn't have any money or means to leave, wanted to stay in the area and one of them said that he had bever been apart from his wife, but that was how it was at the time and they were particularly edgy around the Merseyside region because of all the docks and shipbuilding going on at Cammell Lairds.

I don't know how it was in other areas at that time but the newspapers were full of spy stories and innocent people coming under suspicion. One man was 'arrested' by a group of Boy Scouts because he had a handlebar moustache and they thought he looked German!

Headlines:

The German Arrests in Birkenhead

All the Accused sent to prison.....

If interested please PM me your e-mail address and I'll sent the whole article to you

Caryl

Hello Caryl,

I have only just seen this. I dislocated and broke my shoulder at the beginning of August last year and am slowly catching up with posts on various forums.

I read an article about 152 German aliens from Widnes being sent to an internment camp and at the station, the curious onlookers blocked as spectators. I wrote it down instead of copying it and will have a look for it.

I will gladly send you a pm with my email address.

Thank you

Gill

[CarylW]

Ouch Gill. Sounds painful. Hope you have recovered and healed now

Here's a transcript of the relevant parts with names of the German men concerned. I put it on my website. At least I think I did. It will end up there anyway)

Sidelights of the war

The German arrests in Birkenhead

All the accused sent to prison

At the Borough Police Court on Wednesday - before Mr J W P Laird (in the chair) and Alderman R J Russell - eight German men were charged on remand as alien enemies not provided with a residence permit, with having unlawfully continued to reside in a prohibited area, to wit, Birkenhead

Their names were - Martin Lang, Fritz Foster, Siegfried Lorenben, Ernst Bitsch, August Walz, Peter Watt, Richard Enchenauer and Reinhold Schmidt.

With one exception, they all bore the appearance of Englishmen and not of foreigners

Detective- Inspector Eakins said that the prisoners were alien enemies of this country. On the 15th inst. he told them that the chief Constable refused to grant them residence permits to remain in Birkenhead, and that they would have to leave the town before 12 noon on Wednesday, the 19th inst. They had not done so

The Magistrate's Clerk (Mr George): Have they in the meantime received a permit to stay?

Witness: No

The prisoners were asked if they wanted to put any questions to Inspector Eakins.

Lang said he would like to ask if they would give him a permit to stay here with his family

Foster said he did his best and reported himself. He did not know what to do

Walz said he asked the Inspector if he could do anything for him, because he had no money

Eichenauer said he asked for a permit and was sent over to Liverpool, where they said they could not give him one if he had been refused one in Birkenhead

Detective Inspector Eakins added that he went to considerable trouble with these men and told them where to go and gave them assistance

They got considerable grace

The Chairman remarked to the prisoners that they were told certain places to which they might go. Asked if they had any statement to make.

Lang said that he was told to go somewhere but he had no money to go anywhere.

Foster said he had not much money and was a married man. Lorenzen said he would like to stay here.

The Chairman: You can't stop here

Bitsch said he would like to stop here, he could not find a situation in Manchester.

Waltz said he was poor and had not got any money to go. Watt said he would go anywhere where he could get a situation

Eichenauer said he had got his wife and family here and would like to stay with them. They had never been parted before

After consideration, the Chairman said that the magistrates had taken all the circumstances into consideration. The law as it

exists had been clearly explained to the prisoners by the officers of the police force. They had been given time to go to any of the districts to which they were allowed to go. It was impossible for the magistrates to overlook the fact that they had not gone. Each one of them would have to go to prison for one month in the second division and he wanted to warn them that when they came out of priosn they would not be at liberty to reside in Birkenhead...

[Guest]

Hello I am searching family tree and have a Richard eichenauer not sure of birth but he was the father of Catherine. No sign of a wife as yet but only just started search. 
on his daughters Catherine wedding he signed and his profession was a butcher and I know they started in Birkenhead traces back to Ireland and Germany 

[charlie962]

6 hours ago, Cara said:

Richard eichenauer not sure of birth but he was the father of Catherine.

Welcome to the forum Cara.

 

You should be able to trace him fairly easily- here is the 1911 Census on FindmyPast:

 

 

 

I note there is a Medal Index Card for a Richard Eichenour who served in the Middlesex Regt no G/84215.  Could this be related to the above  Richard junior? was the name spelling changed ?  see also post 25 of this thread re Middlesex Regt Bns being used.

 

I note that the elder son Augustus had previously enlisted in 1906 into the Militia- 3rd King's Liverpool Regt- but had been discharged almost immediately as permanently unfit. Augustus was admitted briefly (?) to the workhouse 1916 and died 1929. His wife Margaret died 1951 aged 59.

 

Charlie

 

Edit-  the ICRC have a card for Richard senior here

Note that place of internment Hfth = PoW Camp Handforth, Cheshire

Richard senior had previous service in the Leib Dragoner Regt 24 as a Gefreiter. This was presumably at the time of the Franco Prussian War of 1870 ??

 

Charlie

 

Further Edit- here he is released from Internment 26/7/16

 

Edited 8 December , 2019 by charlie962