8th Field Bakery ASC

[anthony osborne]

Trying to find out the movements of my great grandfather private Fred Osborne 8th Field Bakery ASC - s/32300 1913-1917 and then wounded serving in the 8th Royal Berkshire Regt - new number 43688. Have movements of Berkshires but trying to establish where Fred served and when he was drafted into the Berkshires. Got medal card but that's it - can anyone help?

Anthony.

[anthony osborne]

looking for any information on 8th Field Bakery Army Service Corps 1913-1917

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Anthony, and welcome to the Forum!

Field Bakeries were only formed on mobilisation, when one such unit was raised for each division. It is likely, therefore, that 8 Field Bakery was raised in the Autumn of 1914 to accompany 8 Division to Flanders. The men to run them came from the Depot Supply Company ASC at Aldershot.

A Field Bakery consisted of an officer and 92 other ranks, and baked bread for about 20,000 men. Apart from a few Dominions units for short periods later in the war, no War Diaries for such units have survived in the National Archives, although it is likely that they were located at one of the base ports - Boulogne, le Havre or Rouen.

Does his medal index card show both ASC details and R Berks? If so, then he went abroad with the ASC and transferred to R Berks later.

Otherwise, unless his service record has survived, I'm afraid that you may not be able to find out much about his activities in the ASC, but you may like to get hold of a copy of "Army Service Corps 1902-1918" by Col Mike Young, which has some information about these kinds of unit.

Good luck!

Ron

[anthony osborne]

Many thanks

Hello Anthony, and welcome to the Forum!

Field Bakeries were only formed on mobilisation, when one such unit was raised for each division. It is likely, therefore, that 8 Field Bakery was raised in the Autumn of 1914 to accompany 8 Division to Flanders. The men to run them came from the Depot Supply Company ASC at Aldershot.

A Field Bakery consisted of an officer and 92 other ranks, and baked bread for about 20,000 men. Apart from a few Dominions units for short periods later in the war, no War Diaries for such units have survived in the National Archives, although it is likely that they were located at one of the base ports - Boulogne, le Havre or Rouen.

Does his medal index card show both ASC details and R Berks? If so, then he went abroad with the ASC and transferred to R Berks later.

Otherwise, unless his service record has survived, I'm afraid that you may not be able to find out much about his activities in the ASC, but you may like to get hold of a copy of "Army Service Corps 1902-1918" by Col Mike Young, which has some information about these kinds of unit.

Good luck!

Ron

[anthony osborne]

Many thanks Ron.

I can confirm that his medal card shows both his ASC number and have confirmation from the Wardrobe that he served in 8th Royal Berks and think he could have been drafted or volunteered for front line service after the German Spring Offensive (8th Berks had suffered large casualties) but this is only a guess. I have a photo of him with 8th Field Bakery football team dated 1914-1917 so any time during 1917 he could have transferred though?

Thanks for the info about which division he is likely to have served with - that gives me something to go on.

Anthony.

[Waggoner]

Anthony,

I am in agreement with Ron. I can find no mention of the 8th Field Bakery in Michael Young's book. He does state that 1-6 Field Bakeries deployed in August of 1914 with the 1-6 Divisions. Apparently the cavalry did not rate one. As additional infantry divisions were deployed, it would stand to reason that additional field bakeries would be as well. Given the absence of a unit war diary, are there any divisional records - such as administration orders - that could be consulted? Perhaps, if they exist, they are at the National Archives.

All the best,

Gary

[anthony osborne]

Anthony,

I am in agreement with Ron. I can find no mention of the 8th Field Bakery in Michael Young's book. He does state that 1-6 Field Bakeries deployed in August of 1914 with the 1-6 Divisions. Apparently the cavalry did not rate one. As additional infantry divisions were deployed, it would stand to reason that additional field bakeries would be as well. Given the absence of a unit war diary, are there any divisional records - such as administration orders - that could be consulted? Perhaps, if they exist, they are at the National Archives.

All the best,

Gary

[anthony osborne]

Thanks Gary, I'll try the Archives on this lead. I'll let you know how I get on - the answers must be ot there somewhere!???

Anthony.

[Old Tom]

In March 1918 8 R Berks were part of 53 Brigade in the 18th Division. They were at the receiving end of the major German offensive and it could well be that your man was one of the, no doubt, many in rear units taken as replacements. I suppose it is possible that the Field Bakery was attached to that division but it is not listed in the divisional history.

Old Tom

[Ron Clifton]

A brief word of caution here: although they were mobilised on a scale of one per division, field bakeries were not actually part of a division. They were Lines of Communication Troops, normally located at one of the bases on the coast or in the rear area.

The same applies to field butcheries, divisional supply columns, divisional ammunition parks, casualty clearing stations and some other types of support unit. One per division was the scale, but not necessarily the allocation. It is very unlikely that you will find anything on field bakeries in any of the divisional troops' War Diaries.

Ron

[anthony osborne]

A brief word of caution here: although they were mobilised on a scale of one per division, field bakeries were not actually part of a division. They were Lines of Communication Troops, normally located at one of the bases on the coast or in the rear area.

The same applies to field butcheries, divisional supply columns, divisional ammunition parks, casualty clearing stations and some other types of support unit. One per division was the scale, but not necessarily the allocation. It is very unlikely that you will find anything on field bakeries in any of the divisional troops' War Diaries.

Ron

[anthony osborne]

Thanks all..Now know my Great grandfather joined the 8th Berks on 28th March with 36 other bakers and was out of action by june - trying to establish exactly when.

Once again thanks all.

Ant.

[Guest lloydie801]

Anthony,

My grandfather was a staff sergeant in the 8th Field Bakery in Boulogne from 1914.

I've attached a photo which may be of interest - I can send you a higher res version if required.

Best Regards

Ian

Thanks all..Now know my Great grandfather joined the 8th Berks on 28th March with 36 other bakers and was out of action by june - trying to establish exactly when.

Once again thanks all.

Ant.

[anthony osborne]

Ian,

amazing photo - thanks!! I would love a higher resolution photo if that's OK. I have a photo of the 8th Fierld Bakery football team taken in 1917 - I will send you a copy of this if you would like too?

How did your grandfather fair during the war did he make it through?

Once again thanks for this photo.

Anthony.

My grandfather was a staff sergeant in the 8th Field Bakery in Boulogne from 1914.

I've attached a photo which may be of interest - I can send you a higher res version if required.

Best Regards

Ian

[anthony osborne]

Ian,

think my great grandfather could be the one to the left of the chap with the big moustache holding the loaf paddle in the air but can't be certain - a higher quality image would help.

Thanks,

Anthony.

[sotonmate]

Anthony

No War Diaries for F&F Bakeries in the NA Catalogue,there are several for Egypt,Palestine and Syria,and one for Salonika. All these only feature the latter part of the war and into 1919-20.

Sotonmate

[John_Hartley]

there are several for Egypt,Palestine and Syria,and one for Salonika.

And they are, perhaps, the least useful diaries I have ever looked at!

In several cases, nothing more than a daily list of how many loaves baked. In others, only "personnel matters" mentioned - the comings and goings of men.

On and off, I've been doing some basic research into food related matters and had hoped that the diaries would have been some help but, alas, not. There's a similar lack of info in the Field Butchery diaries that survive.

[anthony osborne]

Thanks all for your efforts - much appreciated.

Would anyone know what division the 8th Field Bakery is likely to have been attached too (if that's how it worked?) - I seem to think it would have been one of the 1st through to the 5th Divisions as they were first to land in France in 1914? My great-great grandad landed in France on 14th August 1914.

Any clues or pointers as it would appear diaries are no good?

Anthony.

[John_Hartley]

Google turns up this - presumably going to be quite useful to research

http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?coll_id=10349&inst_id=39&term=Parry%20%7C%20H.%20%7C%20soldier

[anthony osborne]

Thanks - looks like a trip to Wales may be on the cards.

Ant.

[anthony osborne]

Thought someone may find this photo interesting.

It is of 8th Field Bakery football team 1914 -1917.

My Great Grandfather Fred Osborne is sat centre row, arms crossed.

Photo taken shortly before he was drafted into 8th Royal Berks with 35 other bakers. Within 4 weeks he was wounded - he lost an arm and was gassed.

He had been in France since August 1914.

Anthony.

In Memory of;

P/O Thomas John Osborne R.N. Died 26th May 1918

Pte Fred Osborne 6th Royal Berks/Army Service Corps. Wounded April 1918.

Pte Arthur Osborne Hawke Battalion. Wounded 3rd September 1918.

Gnr Ernest Harry Hart "A" Bty, 117th Brigade RFA. Killed in Action 28th September 1918.

Pte Tom Wells Northants & Leicestershire Regt.

Family not forgotten.

[elrob12]

Hi Anthony

Not sure if you will still be looking at this forum as your search for your Great Grandfather's information seems to be almost complete. If you are though....

My husbands Great Grandfather served in the 5th Field Bakery, later being transferred to the 5th Royal Berkshire before being wounded - he lost a leg in a shell blast - and subsequently repatriated. Although we have been successful in finding out some information with the help of this forum, we would like to know when he was wounded and what happened to him between then and his return to the UK (all we know is that he was sent to the front line in about Feb 1918 and was discharged in 1919 - there is some talk in the family that he may have been treated in a hospital in Rouen before being sent back to the UK). Can you give any advice, as you seem to have been more successful than us so far.

Many thanks

Linda

[anthony osborne]

Linda,

this is a summary of what I have discovered about my Great Grandfather and how:

Fred served in the 8th Royal Berks for a very short time - I estimate no more than a month before he was wounded. He enlisted on 26 March 1913, was discharged through wounds on 30 August 1919 aged 24 and was awarded the Silver War Badge as well as the 1914 star, War and Victory Medals.

Fred went across to France 14th August 1914 as part of the 4th Field Bakery whom I am led to believe was attached to the 4th Division so presumably your husbands G. Grandfather went to France with the 5th Division?

As the army expanded, so did the ASC and I think Fred then became part of the 8th Field Bakery some time in 1916. He was definitely part of this unit in 1917 as the football team photo proves

The photo showing the 8th Field Bakery in Bolougne 1914 shows the men that made up the 4th Field Bakery - probably miss-labelled 1916 onwards to confuse interested ancestors!

I first sent a message to the Curator of the Wardrobe - the regimental museum for the Royal Berks - this helped me establish his battalion and some other basic details. I then obtained a copy of the war diary for the 8th Battalion (5th Battalion is also available) from the museum (cost £10). Reading through the diary, I was lucky enough the discover reference to 36 bakers transferring to the battalion on 28th March. I know he was wounded in April 1918 as his brother Thomas was buried on 2nd June 1918 having died of exposure (P/O Thomas John Osborne RN) and there is reference to Fred being wounded in the newspaper cutting of the funeral - there were no battalion casualties during May 1918.

Looks like your chap had a similar war.

I have used Ancestry a lot to find medal cards and Silver War Badge records, unfortunately Fred's service record does not exist.

I have also popped to Kew.

The experts on this forum have been the biggest help - If you post his name and service number you will find the responses amazing - that is my best advise to you.

During my searching I have noticed quite a number of 5th Field Bakery service records available on Ancestry (but strangely no 4th Field Bakery?) - you never know his service record may have survived - post his name and number and I'll have a look.

All the best,

Ant

[hintonbelle]

Hi Ant,

I am involved in a project to research all the men who went to war from the villages of Hinton Parva and Bishopstone. I am posting this reply mainly because I have the same photo of the 8^th Field Bakery provided by relatives of Hulbert Richard Johnson, the man standing on the far right or the back row. When the war started, Hulbert was living with his parents in Hinton Parva near Swindon. His father was a travelling photographer. Hulbert enlisted at Woolwich on 31^st August 1914, joining the ASC, (service number T2/11480), and was part of the British Expeditionary Force to France in October 1914. Towards the end of the war he was transferred to the King’s Royal Rifle Corps (service number A/205011).

In the version of the photo I have, the ball is clearly marked 1914 -1917.

We have tracked down Hulbert's service record, but it's not very informative other than to confirm dates of joining and demob, and to record an injury to to his ankle received in action in Sept 18 following his transfer to the King’s Royal Rifle Corps in Jan 18. After the war he maintained his army skills spending the remainder of his working life working in a bakery in Reading .

Best wishes,

Karin

[anthony osborne]

Karin,

thanks for the reply. Nice to know that some one else has a link to the football team photo!

Don't suppose there are any other names of the other players pictured?

Shame the service record has little detail - if you posted it perhaps a keen eyed forum member may be able to pick out some further information from it which you may find useful?

Do you know which battalion of the KRRC Hulbert served with?

Once again thanks for posting.

All the very best for the New Year,

Ant