Hett65 Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 Charles Proctor served as Pte 663 and 202715 with 'C' Coy 20th Rifle Brigade and was either killed or died during the 1st WW, he is on a local war memorial in my area. He entered France 8.11.1914 by his MIC. I have tried the CWGC, MIC, Ancestry soldiers records and pension records in case he died just after the war, and the SDGW disc without success. Are there any Rifle Brigade experts out there who may have knowledge of the date of death of this man? Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 John Does it show him as died on his MIC? It'd also help if we knew where the memorial is and any other info you have on him. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 For him to have a 6 figure Service Number indicates he was alive at that time, which I believe was end of 1916... No 202715 CWGC entries match either Proctor/er or Rifle Brigade men. Something clearly seems amiss, but what? These are the only 3 with a Rifle Brigade connection:- 001 PROCTER W S/1438 12TH BN 24/11/1918 RIFLE BRIGADE 002 PROCTER WT 4312 5TH BN 03/07/1916 LONDON REGIMENT (LONDON RIFLE BRIGADE) 003 PROCTOR WC S/11948 9TH BN 25/09/1915 RIFLE BRIGADE It is possible he died outside the CWGC time frame, do you know when the Memorial in question was prepared? Where do you get the date of entry into theatre from? I have only found one MIC with the same Service Numbers on, but no Date of Entry into any Theatre, and MIC is only for the Victory and BWM's..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 John As Kevin has pointed out, the MIC confirms entitlement to the duo and no star. The 20th Battalion (not formed until 1915) was supernumerary and was allocated UK security duties until it was posted to Egypt in 1916 for garrison duties. It is possible that your man could have died overseas and has slipped through the commemoration net. It might be worthwhile posting in the non commemoration section in case he has already been landed by the IFTC project. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 John No note on MIC referring to his death. I agree with the other posters here that he entered a war theatre after 31 Dec 1915. Nowt seen in service records. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hett65 Posted 31 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2011 Sam, Mel, Kevin,Sotonmate Thanks for the input on Proctor, I made a mistake on his date of entry on the MIC, I had just checked a Charles Proctor DLI and wrote the date down and later thought it was for the MIC on Proctor, Rifle Brigade. I agree there is not date of death on the MIC, and all other checks I did proved negative. The memorial he is on is for Tudhoe Colliery (Spennymoor) miners and was unveiled on the 6th August 1921. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hett65 Posted 31 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2011 In relation to Proctor, forgot to mention he is recorded on the AVL 1918, so he was killed or died between then and 1921. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 John No possibility that the list is of those who served rather than just those who died? If not it's worth checking for a local death cert on Ancestry, he may have died post War of wounds received, but if he did, there would be a mention of a SWB on his MIC if the injuries were that severe. If he died in Service, KIA, Died or Dead was normally written on the MIC. Do you know if there was a pit accident in the date range you mentioned? it maybe that he died at work and was included on the memorial which was created later due to his War service. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hett65 Posted 31 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2011 Sam On the war memorial in question, it records those killed only. I have found a couple of men who were killed in the mines when they returned, I will have to check the local papers to see if I can find anything about him. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 John I have done a little more delving. As you would expect for a supermerary Garrison Battalion, the number of CWGC commemorations are fairly low. There are only sixty in total and about a quarter of these are transferees from Salonika who were torpedoed in troop ships in transit to Egypt on 1 January and 15 April 1917. The bulk of the rest are buried in Cairo where the Battalion was garrisoned. I have checked the England & Wales BMD and there is absolutely no compatible entry for a Charles Proctor b.1877 in the Deaths Index. On balance, I think that this is looking increasingly like a non com. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hett65 Posted 31 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2011 Mel Thanks for the information, I will have to do a bit more research on this man and see what I come up with. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 John I have posted this thread in the Non Comm section just in case the IFTC team have picked up on him: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=159309 Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 John, Find attached his medal roll from WO329-1728. There is no mention in the remarks section of him having died, the medal rolls have been pretty accurate regarding these Territorial Battalions of The Rifle Brigade and dates of death. His date of leaving theatre is also consistent with others of the battalion with quite a few leaving on the 5/1/19, so it would appear we are looking at a date after this. Away from my Territorial battalions notes at present but I do not think they will add anymore to this. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 2 February , 2011 Share Posted 2 February , 2011 I have checked the England & Wales BMD and there is absolutely no compatible entry for a Charles Proctor b.1877 in the Deaths Index. Mel where'd you get the year of birth? no one has quoted one. Anyone check this death of a Charles Proctor in Durham 1921? http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?MS_AdvCB=1&gl=34&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=ms_r_f-34&gsfn=Charles&gsfn_x=1&gsln=Proctor&gsln_x=1&msbdy_x=1&msbdm_x=1&msbdd_x=1&msbpn_x=XO&msbpn__ftp_x=1&msddy=1921&msddy_x=1&msddm_x=1&msddd_x=1&msdpn__ftp=county+durham&msdpn_x=XO&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=XO&msrpn__ftp_x=1&msgdy_x=1&msgdm_x=1&msgdd_x=1&msgpn_x=XO&msgpn__ftp_x=1&msady_x=1&msipn_x=XO&msipn__ftp_x=1&msydy_x=1&msypn_x=XO&msypn__ftp_x=1&_82004280__gpid_x=XO&_82004280__ftp_x=1&_82004290__gpid_x=XO&_82004290__ftp_x=1&gskw_x=1&cpxt=1&uidh=000&cp=11 Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hett65 Posted 2 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2011 Andy Thanks for the input, it certainly appears that he has died betweem that date and 1921 when the memorial was dedicated. I intend following it up by checking the deaths in the local papers. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2017 Share Posted 26 December , 2017 Following my recent acquisition of my Grandmother's memoirs, I was intrigued by the account of her first visit with her prospective husband to their home in Tudhoe and how the kitchen there was dominated by a photograph on the wall of his late father. My grandma describes how the face showed a pained expression and that his hands were bandaged. This has led me to this site and the identification of Charles Proctor (my Great Grandfather). Family heresay has it that he died in Egypt during the first world war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hett65 Posted 26 December , 2017 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2017 Peter Unfortunately I did not update my research on Charles Proctor, below is what I found. Charles Proctor 'C' Coy 20th Bn Rifle Brigade (formerly 663 Rifle Brigade) died home in March 1921. He was buried at Spennymoor (Tudhoe) Cemetery on the 25th March 1921, his grave reference is 801. He had lived at 138 Front Street, Tudhoe Colliery with his wife Mary Jane and children; John Robert, Ethel, Priscilla & Charles. His name is recorded on Tudhoe Colliery War memorial at York Hill Cemetery (Spennymoor (Tudhoe) Cemetery is official title), and also on St David's Church Memorial, Tudhoe. I did not find any article on him in local papers. If you see the medal rolls above provided by Andrew, you will see that he left his last theatre of war on 5.1.1919 and has then returned home where he died. From you description of him in the photograph it may be he had been wounded and this may have contributed to his death in 1921. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2017 Share Posted 26 December , 2017 Thanks for that Hett65. I've just started looking into this so the information is gold dust. Mum will be thrilled. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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