Researching Grandfather Army Service Corps

[rosie49]

I have seperated this search from my original thread as the regiment has been corrected via some invaluable help from Bootneck.

I am researching my grandfather Robert Henry Hill of Godalming Surrey.

Bootneck found out this info from Godalming Museum for me:-

Fester

According to the Godalming Town Roll of Honour, your man is

Robert Henry Hill

Address: 25 Bridge Street, Godalming

Corps: Army Service Corps

Rank:

Enlisted: 1 September 1914

Demobbed: 29 January 1919

Theatre of War: France

Overseas Chevrons (Stripes): 4 Blue

It is a pity there is no service number. I would infer from the above that he would have the British War and Victory Medals and the 1914-1915 Star. As he had four blue overseas chevrons this indicated he had served abroad for 4 years after December 1914. If he had a red chevron, this would indicated foreign service between August to December 1914. These chevrons were issued in 1918.

The Army Service Corps cap badge is similar to an East Surrey one.

Regards

Bootneck

Thankyou Bootneck!

I have gone through the Robert H Hills on TNA for a possible MIC . The only one for the ASC is:-

Robert H Hill T1SR/255 Driver

***********

Okay, I now have the MIC for Robert H Hill T1SR/255 ASC Driver through from my MIC guy, Steve.

There is no roll number for a Star.

There is no theatre of war or date filled in.

The Victory & British ref is Rasc/101B7 page 714

Can anyone help with the Roll details please?

As this is a Special Reserve may he have been UK based for part of the war? or transferred across the channel during the conflict? I ask because he fathered a son in September 1917 (home for xmas '16?)

Many thanks

Fester

[roughdiamond]

Fester

You don't get an Overseas Chevron for serving in the UK (which at that time included what is now Eire), the likelyhood is he has a MIC for a 1914/15 only, which could be for another Unit with another number, he could also be listed as Robert, Robert H, R H or Robert Henry Hill.

Sam

[rosie49]

Fester

You don't get an Overseas Chevron for serving in the UK (which at that time included what is now Eire), the likelyhood is he has a MIC for a 1914/15 only, which could be for another Unit with another number, he could also be listed as Robert, Robert H, R H or Robert Henry Hill.

Sam

Indeed Sam, it's the chevrons that makes me doubt this is the correct MIC

Should this not be the correct MIC there are 10 with just the name of Robert Hill on my TNA search assigned to the ASC:-

F/28656 Private

S4/184854 Private

M/2/268716 Private

T4/245877 Corporal

M2/03148 Private

MS/1048 Private then Sargeant

T/13152 Farrier Corporal then Corporal

M2/080243 Private

M/31624 (incomplete) Private

M/287312 (incomplete) Private

Fester

[Stebie9173]

For Robert Henry Hill I would be looking for a man with a 1914-15 Star because of the overseas stripes. Assuming constant overseas service (a little bit of leave still counted as overseas) and the LATEST possible date of qualification for his fourth overseas chevrons as 29-1-1919 (i.e. date of demobilisation - the date of actual qualification is likely to be earlier)

The qualification for overseas stripes was at the START of each year overseas, hence:

4th stripe - 29.1.1919

3rd stripe - 29.1.1918

2nd stripe - 29.1.1917

1st stripe - 29.1.1916

So there is a very small window for him serving overseas and not getting a 1914-15 Star. This could be even smaller if the date of "demob" is actually his date of transfer to Reserve, in which case the date of demobilisation would be 28 days earlier (in most cases).

He therefore may well have served as Robert Hill, and dropped the Henry.

Steve.

(Also posted on the original topic).

[rosie49]

Thanks Stebie

I have looked through a few other of the options on Ancestry this afternoon

F/28656 has No Star

MS/1048 has a 14 star

T/13152 has a 14 star and SWB

M2/080243 has No Star

T4/245877 has No Star

M/2/268716 has SWB (392) 1916 (No medal notes)

M/287322 has No Star

M/316240 has No Star

S4/184854 has No Star

but,

M2/031486 has a 15 Star, Qual date 4-1-15 France. --- Star roll- rasc/1B page1061 --- V&B roll- rasc/101B121 page 2143

looks like the only poss thus far

regards

Rosie

Fester

[roughdiamond]

I ask because he fathered a son in September 1917 (home for xmas '16?)

Fester

Have you seen this Birth Cert? It should list his "employment" and may give a Unit or even where he was based at the time, If you haven't got it, I'd suggest getting it.

Sam

[rosie49]

Fester

Have you seen this Birth Cert? It should list his "employment" and may give a Unit or even where he was based at the time, If you haven't got it, I'd suggest getting it.

Sam

It's funny you should say that, a distant cousin whom i have never met has emailed to say she has a copy of it. She is going to photocpy it and send it to me. (snail-mail ...no scanner unfortunately)

She also said that his son's baptism in September 1917 has him down as Soldier.

regards

Fester

[roughdiamond]

The qualification for overseas stripes was at the START of each year overseas, hence:

4th stripe - 29.1.1919

3rd stripe - 29.1.1918

2nd stripe - 29.1.1917

1st stripe - 29.1.1916

Steve are you sure of this? as far as I'm aware the maximum anyone could attain was 1 Red (1914) and 4 Blue, the latter being for service abroad in 1915, 16, 17 and 1918, Service stripes wouldn't be awarded for 1919 AFAIK. If I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.comerford/ORDNANCE/48b.htm

Sam

[Stebie9173]

I'm sure we've discussed this before. Entitlement did start on arrival, and I believe counted by day rather than being a year thing. A month of leave in a year counted as overseas, anything above that stopped the clock, as did being evcauated as wounded, etc. The clock resumed upon landing again.

I'm not sure exactly when the entitlement ceased. It may well have been 11-11-1918. The example I gave was on the basis of the last possible day he could have been entitled to his fourth stripe.

Steve.

[rosie49]

I have just had the following info emailed to me by a cousin from an online search (findmypast) :-

When Bob was 18 and 3 months old he was serving in the Royal Army Medical Militia, and was going to enlist in the Army Service Corps. Joined at Aldershot, 1905. He was serving for 65 days.

First name(s): Robert

Last name: HILL

Calculated year of birth: 1887

Parish of birth: Godalming

Town of birth: Godalming

County of birth: Surrey

Age at attestation: 18 years 3 months

Attestation date: 1 December 1905

Attestation corps: Army Service Corps

Attestation soldier number: 23713

Discharge rank:

Discharge corps:

Discharge soldier number:

The National Archives reference: WO97 / 5119 / 152

I have not seen an 'Attestation soldier number' before - is this a temporary ref number that could be replaced with a proper regiment number soon after? eg M2/031486 ??

or is 23713 more likely to be the number I'm looking for?

regards

Fester

[rosie49]

All my searchng for 23713 is drawing blanks. I did see another soldier's attestation via Ancestry which has the 5 digit number crossed out and a 6 digit relacement written above.

The search into M2/031486 is proving inconclusive but still a possibilty.

Un fortunatley, it looks like I might have to wait unti lI can get to Kew and Godalming itself.

regards

R

Fester

[rosie49]

Hoping to get to Kew this month :-)

[rosie49]

Zombie Thread.... sorry!

Sit Rep Update

Went to Kew and Godalming - nothing more found, seems all the info available on Robert Hill is already online and records well lost.

Have narrowed down to two or three MIC's

Discovered plenty more on his brothers' service records though.