Simon_Fielding Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 Look at image no.5....this memorial rings a bell but I can't recall the details... http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2010/11/colour-images-of-nazi-occupied-kharkiv/ Best Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 Well the caption of "WW1 German tank memorial" is rather wide of the mark! This is a Mark V Composite (aka Hermaphrodite) captured by the Red Army from the Whites or their allies during the Russian Civil War and used by them during the 1920s and early 1930s. It was subsequently placed on display in Kharkov where it was captured by the Wehrmacht during the invasion of Russia in 1941. The tank may well have served in the First World War, but without knowing its serial number it's impossible to trace its earlier history. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 Assuming that the 'Kharkiv' he refers to is the Kharkov in question which seems likely, there is a report on visit Robert Scott made to this tank as part of his Winston Churchill Memorial Trust fellowship project in 2007 Here which should be of interest. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 Assuming that the 'Kharkiv' he refers to is the Kharkov in question which seems likely, there is a report on visit Robert Scott made to this tank as part of his Winston Churchill Memorial Trust fellowship project in 2007 Here which should be of interest. NigelS I have this image of the tank at Kharkov - however the Starboard sponson is Female! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 The picture in the last post isn't Kharkov. It's Smolensk. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 7 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2010 Wikipedia implies the Kharkov tank is a Mark V female: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_I_tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 I also have this photo of "Charcow" which looks like the coloured one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 The picture in the last post isn't Kharkov. It's Smolensk. Gwyn You may be right but the Russian source labled it Kharkov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 I also have this photo of "Charcow" which looks like the coloured one. Edit: is 'Charcow' just an Anglicised version of Kharkiv/Kharkov? Can't argue with that Centurion, the background buildings are the same! the question is which photo has been labelled incorrectly; Simon, you might have opened a real can of worms ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 8 November , 2010 Share Posted 8 November , 2010 Edit: is 'Charcow' just an Anglicised version of Kharkiv/Kharkov? Can't argue with that Centurion, the background buildings are the same! the question is which photo has been labelled incorrectly; Simon, you might have opened a real can of worms ! There is a way to check if one could read the Wermacht signposts and back tracked on a map. Charcow is how the photo I located was titled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 8 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2010 I've definitely seen reference to this tank before but am having a senior moment (at 43) trying to remember! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 8 November , 2010 Share Posted 8 November , 2010 The picture in the last post isn't Kharkov. It's Smolensk. Gwyn I thought this was Smolensk (which seems to have had two tanks) Perhaps someone can identify the church/cathedral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 8 November , 2010 Share Posted 8 November , 2010 I have found some pictures of Smolensk Cathedral here: http://wikimapia.org/1963930/Smolensk-Cathedral Kharkov seems to have three cathedrals... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkov_Cathedral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 8 November , 2010 Share Posted 8 November , 2010 The photo in post #7 and the link to the photo in post #1 both show the same tank. It's a Mark V Composite (or Hermaphrodite) in Kharkov. The photo in post #4 and the tank on the right in post #12 are the same tank, and this is Smolensk. So far as I know all Russian cities with tanks (with the possible exception of Arkangel, and I've probably spelt that wrong) had two tanks. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 8 November , 2010 Share Posted 8 November , 2010 So far as I know all Russian cities with tanks (with the possible exception of Arkangel, and I've probably spelt that wrong) had two tanks. Do you have evidence for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 8 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 8 November , 2010 Share Posted 8 November , 2010 Do you have evidence for this? I have to rely on a secondary source: Bullock, D. (2006) "Armored Units of the Russian Civil War: Red Army" Oxford: Osprey On page 39 it states "17 civil war tanks remained on the books in 1938, 15 Mark Vs and two Renos. People's Defense Commissar Voroshilov ordered 14 of these to be placed in museums. Two tanks each were sent to Kharkov, Leningrad, Kiev, Archangel, Rostov-on-Don, Smolensk and Voroshilovgrad." Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 8 November , 2010 Share Posted 8 November , 2010 Some evidence for the photos in posts #4 and #12 being Smolensk and not Kharkov. It's a photo that cropped up on eBay some time ago. I attach the photo itself and the reverse showing what I believe to be the original German caption, which clearly states Smolensk. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 10 April , 2012 Share Posted 10 April , 2012 The caption reads "Museumspanzer vor der Kathedrale Smolensk" = "Museum tanks in front of the cathedral [in] Smolensk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 10 April , 2012 Share Posted 10 April , 2012 I have to rely on a secondary source: Bullock, D. (2006) "Armored Units of the Russian Civil War: Red Army" Oxford: Osprey On page 39 it states "17 civil war tanks remained on the books in 1938, 15 Mark Vs and two Renos. People's Defense Commissar Voroshilov ordered 14 of these to be placed in museums. Two tanks each were sent to Kharkov, Leningrad, Kiev, Archangel, Rostov-on-Don, Smolensk and Voroshilovgrad." Gwyn Its late but I feel sure that this is wrong and the tanks were sent to the cities much earlier and on Stalin's orders. Let me check my notes in the AM. The Osprey is a good book but I have detected what seem to be a few errors in it - nothing huge but this may be one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 11 April , 2012 Share Posted 11 April , 2012 The posts from Sidearm # 18 and Siege Gunner # 19 are correct, as the Cathedral is the Dormition Cathedral in Smolensk, where from 1933 till 1941, an anti-religion museum had been situated. Attached are German WW2 photographs taken at the Dormition Cathedral in Smolensk, and in two of the photographs the 2 WW1 tanks are clearly seen. The photographs show German troops visiting the then Museum at the Dormition Cathedral. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 11 April , 2012 Share Posted 11 April , 2012 German troops visiting the Dormition Cathedral/Museum in Smolensk during WW2. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 11 April , 2012 Share Posted 11 April , 2012 The Dormition Cathedral in Smolensk. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 11 April , 2012 Share Posted 11 April , 2012 I have this image of the tank at Kharkov - however the Starboard sponson is Female! Not Kharkov, but in fact Smolensk - captions on photographs can be so very misleading ! Look at the top right of your photograph, there is a pillar behind the German vehicle, your " Kharkov " picture was taken from the steps of the Dormition Cathedral in Smolensk. Look at the photograph in post # 21, and you will see both the pillars, taken from the same view point. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 11 April , 2012 Share Posted 11 April , 2012 Going back to the first photo, Kharkiv became the home of the Soviet tank forces as the Germans advanced into Russia in 1941. The city had become the home of Russian tank production in the 1930s and later became the site of the Russian tank academy - it still exists today as part of the Ukrainian Military University. I was very fortunate to visit its museum last year but did not see the Mark V in the city - I think if it still existed, I would have been shown it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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