Lacrymatory Shell - What is it ?

[ianjonesncl]

Pals

Reading the Official History for the Somme in 1916, chapter XII on the preliminary bombardment details the tasks including;

"shelling of communications every night (but lacrymatory shell was not to be used until midnight on Y/Z day)"

What type of shell was this ? Is it a from of tear gas ?

(Collins dictionary of, Lacrymatory - causing, or producing tears)

Which weapon systems fired this type of shell ?

Any help much appreciated.

[centurion]

What type of shell was this ? Is it a from of tear gas ?

Yes - don't have details to hand.

[johnreed]

Tear Gas shell.

John

[27thBN]

Yes i total agreement with John ....Tear Gas Shell.

MC

[centurion]

Yes i total agreement with John ....Tear Gas Shell.

MC

Um didn't I say this in post 2?

[27thBN]

No you said "Yes - don't have details to hand." ......So i agree with both of you....Pure Skindles stuff what ..

MC

[centurion]

Putting tear gas into perspective

"The low concentration required (one part in ten million of some lachrymators is sufficient to make vision impossible without a mask) makes this form of gas warfare very economical as well as very effective. Even if a mask does completely protect against such compounds, their use compels an army to wear the mask indefinitely, with an expenditure of shell far short of that required if the much more deadly gases were used. Thus Fries estimates that one good lachrymatory shell will force wearing the mask over an area that would require 500 to 1000 phosgene shell of equal size to produce the same effect. While the number of actual casualties will be very much lower, the total effect considered from the standpoint of the expenditure of

ammunition and of the objectives gained, will be just as valuable." Chemical Warfare 1920

[janecavell]

As a nerdy former proof-reader I feel it is my duty to point out that the correct spelling is lachrymatory

[ianjonesncl]

Pals

Many thanks.

Does anyone know which weapon systems were capable of firing those shells ?

[David B]

The Germans normally used 150 mm (5.9 inch) guns to deliver shells. I presume the llies used much the same size weapon systems.

David

[centurion]

German gas shells were based on the Kopfkammer Schrapnell with the lead or antimony balls being replaced by a glass container, as such they were also available in 7.7 cm

[centurion]

I believe that there was a British 18pdr gas shell, like the German based on the shrapnel round. I think the 60 pdr also fired a gas shell. By WW2 gas shells came in 25 pdr, 5.5 and 6 inch sizes so I imagine the WW1 equivalents applied.

[ianjonesncl]

Thanks to everyone for the information.

A quick check shows the following had Gas Shells;

4.7 inch Gun

60 Pounder

8 inch Howitzer

18 Pounder

4.5 inch Howitzer

[dman]

The definative reference is "CHEMICALS IN WAR" by Lt Col A.M. Prentiss (later Brig General) PHD, USA publshed in 1937

Can be found in some large university libraries. Goes in detail of all chemical weapons in use during WW I. gas, incendiary, flame warfare. Gives dimensions of all chemical shells, their construction and fillings.

Very informative.

[Hans k.]

Regarding Centurion's mention of gas shells with inserted glass containers, I know that the Germans used this delivery system for diphenylchlorarsine which was a sternutator (irritant) but also described in some sources as a lachrymator. These shells were designated "blue cross" by the Germans and so marked.

Below is one of these glass bottles shown next to a GM17 gas mask for scale.

German gas shells were based on the Kopfkammer Schrapnell with the lead or antimony balls being replaced by a glass container, as such they were also available in 7.7 cm

[Cnock]

Hi,

by the way, the 'Blauwkreuzkampfstoff' also named Clark 1, was not liquid and needed no bottle.

one of its characteristics was to enter the filterbox and cause irritatian of nose, eyes and bronchial tubes, forcing the victim to take his gasmask of.

That is why the Germans called it 'Maskenbrecher'.

With the mask taken of, other types of lethal gasses could do their deadly work

Cnock

[Hans k.]

Who said Blaukreuz was a liquid? The fact that it was contained inside a glass bottle is well documented, as are the bottles themselves.

As a side note, the clip-on attachment on the filter of the gas mask shown in my previous thread was specifically designed to keep the sternutator dust from entering the mask via the filter.
Hans

 

Edit: someone removed this diagram of the Blaukreuz shell I originally posted.

Edited 14 May , 2017 by Hans k.

[ianjonesncl]

As a nerdy former proof-reader I feel it is my duty to point out that the correct spelling is lachrymatory

Glad I am not the only one that can not spell !!!!

Official History....

[Rob Connolly]

Thanks to everyone for the information.

A quick check shows the following had Gas Shells;

4.7 inch Gun

60 Pounder

8 inch Howitzer

18 Pounder

4.5 inch Howitzer

But not during the battle in question. I'm reading the second OH volume about the Somme, and it specifically states for an engagement before 14/7/1916 that gas shells were fired by attached French batteries, since the British did not have this latest form of disagreeableness.