Unit Marking Question

[shippingsteel]

Can anyone assist with identifying the particular O.T.C. that this Pattern 1888 bayonet is marked to.?

The letters appear to be R.A.D. over the numerals 167 , but I can't seem to find it on any of my normal lists.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers, S>S

[TonyE]

Officer Training Corps

Radley College

Abingdon

Oxfordshire

UK

Regards

TonyE

[shippingsteel]

Thanks so much for that TonyE, appreciate it.

Its funny how the clue suddenly appears after you know what you're looking for.! (Upon taking another look it isn't R.A.D. after all, but RAD.)

I was looking for something with the 3 words, so it had me stumped. Thanks for your help.

Quoting from wapedia :- "Although some UOTC can trace their origins even earlier, the modern OTC was founded during the Haldane Reforms in 1908 to remedy a critical shortage of officers during the South African War (1899-1902). Initially it had a senior division, in eight universities, and a junior division, in public schools. During the First World War, the senior OTCs became officer producing units and some 30,000 officers passed through, but after the war reverted to their basic military training role."

Given that the bayonet is dated as being made in 1898 and the Haldane Reforms occurred in 1908, does that mean that the Radley OTC was already in existence prior to the reforms.? So is Radley one of the original OTC's.? Unfortunately I have absolutely no knowledge of the history of British public schools. Anyway, the bayonet shows no evidence of ever being re-issued so appears to have stayed with the Radley OTC for the duration.

I did manage to find THIS LINK to badges of the OTC which does provide a useful list of the various colleges and universities that trained OTC units. This may be of some assistance to people in tracking down the history of similarly marked items in the future.

Cheers, S>S

[TonyE]

I do not know whether the Radley OTC was in existence before the Haldane reforms, but you could contact the college via its web site. Most likely the unit was formed after 1908 and issued with MLEs and bayonets which were marked to the college.

Radley would have been in the Junior Division, as was my old school, Emanuel. When I was a cadet armourer there in the early 1960s we still had a large number of SMLEs among the 500 or so rifles in the armoury, many of Great War vintage.

Regards

TonyE

[shippingsteel]

TonyE from your experience as an armourer in the public school training corps, what kind of system was used in the numbering of the rifles and bayonets. Were the bayonets numbered as to match up with a specific rifle on a rack (ie. as in rack number).? Or did every single item in the armoury get its own individual number for bookkeeping purposes etc.?

You mention you had 500 rifles in the armoury at your old school - that seems quite a number, were they all used regularly or were many just in storage.? How many cadets would these schools have had in their OTC units and did they all undergo weapons training with regular range practice.?

I can imagine working in such an armoury as a young person would definitely have been conducive towards fostering a lifelong love of military weapons.!! I also can trace back my love of militaria to time spent with a school friend whose father just happened to own the local military surplus warehouse. Many an hour was spent playing amongst the racks and cases and rummaging through endless piles of goodies.!! Great memories ....

Cheers, S>S

[TonyE]

I was in the cadet force from 1958 to 1963 and by then it was known as the Combined Cadet Force as it had army, RN and RAF sections. We had between 500 and 600 pupils in the CCF and parade was every Tuesday afternoon.

The armoury held some 500 rifles, a mixture of No.1 and No.4, 12 Bren guns, 12 Sten guns, six .22 No.2 rifles and six .22 No.8 target rifles (and a 2" mortar). By that date, weapons were no longer unit numbered and we only had a few spike bayonets for the No.4s, so I cannot say with any experience how things were done in earlier days.

Th answer your other questions, the rifles were all used on parade every week. We had a 25 yard .22 range in the school grounds and every cadet qualified there before moving on to a .303 rifle either on a Field Day of at camp. We also shot both .22 and full bore matches (like the Ashburton) against other schools and for these we had a separate set of No.4 rifles that were only used for these matches.

Unfortunately, an anti-military head teacher was appointed in the 1980s and one of the first things she did was close down the Cadet Force.

Attached is a picture of the Emanuel shoulder badge when it was still an OTC.

Regards

TonyE

[Steven Broomfield]

Unfortunately, an anti-military head teacher was appointed in the 1980s and one of the first things she did was close down the Cadet Force.

Regards

TonyE

Oddly enough, my school closed down its CCF in the late 60's, the year before I was old enough to join (I should point out that I'm a much younger man than Tony), as it was felt, in those far-off peace-loving days, to be an anchromism.

I ended up in the ATC with the local skinheads instead.

[Grovetown]

Emanuel

As an OT aside, as a schoolboy we never failed to beat Emanuel at rugby; but as a (still playing) adult, I have yet to win against the Old Boys. It rankles.

Cheers,

GT.

[TonyE]

Oddly enough, my school closed down its CCF in the late 60's, the year before I was old enough to join .......

I did not realise the entrance age for the CCF in Hampshire was 30!

Grovetown - we always win in the end!

Cheers,

TonyE

[trajan]

I do not know whether the Radley OTC was in existence before the Haldane reforms, but you could contact the college via its web site. Most likely the unit was formed after 1908 and issued with MLEs and bayonets which were marked to the college.

Established in 1909 according to this: https://radleyarchive.wordpress.com/the-cadet-corps-1909-2009/

Trajan