CONSERVATION tips for Great War Leather artifacts

[Vimyridge]

Hello fellow members

I recently wrote a posting called "how I display my Great war uniform collection" in which I briefly discussed leather care.

Since last November I have been a volunteer at one of our locate military museums. Here I have helped conserve and display

many of the artifacts. In this short time I have been able to learn much more about leather conservation.

Here are my new thoughts based on what I've read and learnt since then. (Here is a photo I took of some of the products I discuss below)

It is now commonly accepted amongst leather conservators that application of leather dressings on very old leather should be avoided. ..BUT..read on

Here is a quote taken from the Conservation institute

"The application of leather dressings and saddle soap, as was recommended in the first edition of this CCI Note, is now not

generally recommended as a treatment for leather. Dressings, which consist of oils, waxes, or oil emulsions, were applied in

an attempt to make stiff leathers softer and more flexible. Many leather dressings are available on the market: British Museum Leather Dressing®,

neat's foot oil, lanolin, etc. Research has since shown that dressings are generally not effective in preserving leather (McCrady and Raphael, 1987).

Unless the oil content of the leather is known through chemical analysis to be too low, applied oils from a dressing can cause further stiffening by

dehydrating the leather (Stambolov et al., 1984). Furthermore, many oils and fats used in leather dressings lubricate in the short term but oxidize

with time, resulting in additional stiffening of the leather. There are many other problems created by applying a leather dressing, including the

darkening of the leather's surface, the staining of surrounding materials and the risk of attracting dust or insects. Saddle soap — used in the

past as a "cleaner and conditioner," although originally developed as only a conditioner — has the additional problem of being very alkaline, which

causes degradation of the leather. The soap can also react with the oils in the leather and leave a white scummy deposit on the surface"

If after reading the above you still feel that your artifacts need some sort of dressing then ask yourself a this question

Does this leather still need to be soft and pliable whist in my collection?

Museum objects do not need to be rendered flexible since their function is no longer the same as the original intended use. If objects are

stored, displayed, used, and handled properly, flexibility no longer plays an important role. Care of stiff leathers should therefore not include

the application of saddle soap or a dressing, but should instead be focused on handling procedures and proper support of the artifacts"

Now I understand that many of us are collectors and not museums so here is my personal approach.

The most important think you as a collector and caretaker can do to conserve the leather artifacts

is to control the amount of RH (Relative humidity) and direct sunlight on your Great war leather items.

Humidity will cause mould to grow and deteriorate leather.

Get yourself an inexpensive humidity gauge, and keep the RH between 40%-60%

Anything over 65% will cause mould, and anything under 30% will cause dryness and embrittlement.

RED ROT

Red rod is mostly found in leathers that have been vegetable tanned (Barks, leaves, twigs)

Depending on the type of tannin in the vegetable matter used, the leather may be prone to a condition known as red rot,

a degradation of the leather that eventually produces a red, powdery surface.

If red rot is the situation, the only thing I suggest is CELLUGEL©

I have tried this product and it is excellent ..BUT should only be used on items that suffer from dry or red rot

"Cellugel uses cellulose ethers (specifically hydroxypropylcellulose) and isopropanol to treat red rot by penetrating the

surface of the leather. It consolidates the leather depositing a thin film which provides resistance to atmospheric conditions

but does not darken or discolor leather surfaces. It will not stain other materials it comes in contact with"

This product will not make the item flexible, only consolidate the redrot. I suggest this product for brodie helmet chinstraps

were the red rot is at such a stage where the chinstrap is in danger of breaking off. If this is the case, the helemt should not be displayed with the strap hung loose.

I suggest the helemt rest on a shelf.

MOULD

if you have mould which normally appears in the form of a black or white powdery residue then there are certain things you can do.

The cheaper approach is to use a soft toothbrush and gently brush away the spores while using a vacuum nozzle to gently remove them.

Then treating the leather directly with a light application of isopropyl alcohol should kill some of these internal spores.

The isopropyl alcohol should be at least 40% volume/volume.

The product I have tried and suggest is "TALAS leather protector"

it is a deacidifier and anti fungicide "A dual-action solution that neutralizes acids caused by polluted atmosphere.

Replaces natural salts that are used in the tanning process, but later washed away. Protects against molds and

mildew. Contains potassium lactate and p-nitrophenol. British Museum formula."

FLEXIBILITY

I have two ww1 spats that I wanted to display on a mannequin, problem was the leather was so stiff that it would not flex onto the boot.

So in this case I decided it was best if I apply a dressing to make it pliable. If your WW1 holster or leather 1914 webbing needs to be flexible then

I suggest trying a combination of "TALAS leather protector" and then another product called TALAS leather dressing"

The TALAS products were mainly developed for old leather bound books that are opened and closed so flexibility is in important.

The Leather dressing is a good product in that the leather will darken a little and not feel stick or greasy afterwards.

There is another product that museums have used called Triple crown aka FREDELKA FORMULA

I have tried this on a few spots but found it to be a little greasy but does buff into a nice shine...so you decide!

See it being applied in the video below

I have also included below a portion from a LEATHER CONSERVATION conference that took place at the University of Texas on March 12-14 1997.

It is an interesting read that again echos the thought that dressings should be avoided but adding lubricants is appropriate under certain conditions.

"The subject of leather dressings and surface coatings was of particular interest, since most of the class deals regularly with questions from collectors, friends, members of the public and other institutions concerning what can be safely used to coat or lubricate leather objects. Most of us say "nothing", having seen some of the incredible damage that has been done in the past by over-application of these products. Chris felt, however, that adding a lubricant is appropriate under certain conditions, and with an understanding of potential drawbacks. Most leathers are stable at an oil content of about 5% by weight, and many historical leather objects have survived very well without any lubrication other than what was originally added when the skin was manufactured.

Before adding a lubricant to any leather, it is important to decide if it actually needs more flexibility, and to understand why it is stiff. If the fibers themselves are deteriorated and brittle, lubrication will not help. If the object must be used, and the fibers are still reasonably strong, addition of a lubricant can add flexibility by increasing the space between the fibers and allowing them to move against each other more freely. Neatsfoot oil is a very effective lubricant, but darkens the leather substantially. Most commercially-available neatsfoot oil is now made up of lard, whose excess fatty acids can cause spew on the surface of the treated item. If neatsfoot oil is used, it must be "cold-tested" against solidification of fatty acids at low temperatures. Since application of a concentrated oil can increase the oil content of a skin by up to 10%, Chris recommends diluting neatsfoot oil to a 5/10% solution in mineral spirits, Stoddard's solvent, or petroleum ether before applying.

Avoid aggressive solvents that might strip out the oils already present in the leather. Over-application of oils can disrupt the moisture content of the leather, by taking up space that would otherwise be occupied by water. Lanolin, another traditional component of leather dressings, can cause problems because it is hygroscopic and may rob the surrounding leather of its natural moisture content. Lubricants afford no protection against the penetration of SO2, although they can form a sticky surface layer that attracts lint and dust.

Consolidants are also problematic, since they are usually polymers with molecules too large to penetrate well into the structure of the skin. The cellulose ether Klucel G is currently in favor, particularly among book conservators, as a relatively benign surface consolidant. It is usually applied dissolved in ethanol, which, although it is a polar solvent does not affect leather as drastically as water. Olivia Primanis of the HRC described the use of repeated applications of very dilute (0.5-1.0%) solutions of Klucel G with an airbrush as a successful method for consolidating reverse calf, though an increase in the stiffness of the surface nap was noted. Higher concentrations of Klucel can cause color change. Chris suggested that isopropanol rather than ethanol as the solvent might reduce this effect. END

************************

So what I now have done is moved away from picards and lexol

and have invested in the products below. They are fairly inexpensive.

I hope this has answered some of your questions.

I am still in the learning process and hope to learn more as time goes on.

Please pardon my poor grammar

NOTE:

I am in no way affiliated or receive any payment from these companies.

TALAS leather protector (Anti fungal and deacidifier)

http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catalog/pro...ProductID=18657

TALAS eather dressing

http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catalog/pro...ProductID=18663

TRIPLE CROWN (Dressing)

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/...ection29_18.htm

CELLUGEL (red rot)

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/...ection29_17.htm

[o j kirby]

Great advice!

As collectors, it is really useful to get tips on conserving our items. On the leather subject, I have an '03 patterm leather belt. When I first got it, there was a patch on it that was so dry, that it would have split is I had attempted to flex it. As an experiment, I gave it several treatments of "E45" cream for hands with dry or other skin conditions. I don't know what the long term consequences of this is, but I am able to say that the leather has been perfectly flexible for ten years now.

Owain.

[Vimyridge]

...As for Pecards, I spoke to one of there rep's today who informed me that the contents of the product is

Petrolatum, white wax, and beeswax.

[dutchbarge]

...As for Pecards, I spoke to one of there rep's today who informed me that the contents of the product is

Petrolatum, white wax, and beeswax. The good thing is there is no neatsfoot oil or lanolin.

After learning what is in Pecards, I think it is safe to use over the TALAS dressing,

Thanks for taking the time to learn about this topic AND put it all down for us! I have been using Pecard's Antique Leather dressing for about 40 years. Past discussion about the negative effects of treating leather (particularly with Pecard's) prompted me some time ago to critically inspect all the items which I have treated with Pecards. I can state flatly that whether the item was treated 4 decades ago, or last week, there has been no deterioration of any items so treated...on the contrary they actually look splendid. Please note that I have only ever collected officer kit which was made of superior hides......and have only bought kit which was in very good condition (supple, minimal surface crazing and tight stitching). I only ever gave any item one very light coat (no periodic re-treatment), let it settle for about 30-45 minutes, and buffed it off with a soft cloth. This was done more in the nature of cleaning and dressing rather than in any attempt to restore damaged leather. I have seen many collectors repeatedly apply thick coats of Pecard's (and other products) to very deteriorated leather, letting it soak in for days......and then condemn the product for either not restoring the leather to like new condition....or claiming that it accelerated the deterioration. I have yet to find any product that could restore leather...about the best one can hope for is to halt further deterioration.

There are so many variables.....original quality of the hides used to make the item.....method of tanning/dying....service use and care.....storage conditions....all of which contribute to either the preservation or destruction of leather kit, that it is most difficult to credit or discredit preservation techniques or products without carefully considering the context of item being treated. What might prove beneficial in one climate may be destructive in another.....be helpful in preserving leather in one particular condition while damaging another in different condition. A thoughtful, long-time collector in your locale would be the best source of information.

I have skated most of these issues by always buying leather that has survived in remarkably good condition, storing it in near ideal conditions (here in New Mexico we have fairly consistent year 'round humidity) after giving it a one-time, very sparing, 'cosmetic' treatment with Pecard's. Hopefully without sounding too 'touchy-feelie' I actually do believe that items of leather kit have their own destiny. Like people, some just last longer and look better over the years than others....often irrespective of their treatment good or bad.

Cheers, Bill

[Vimyridge]

Well said Bill

R

[wainfleet]

Thank you Roger, I find this extremely helpful.

[Vimyridge]

As for Pecards Antique leather

It contains White wax, beeswax and Petrolatum,I looked into what Petrolatum actually was and

It seems it is simply Petroleum jelly which is a also know as VASOLINE©

I would need to do more research but I'm fairly certain that petroleum jelly is a "no no" on antique leather

I am having a phone meeting tomorrow with a conservator at the Canadian conservation institute to find out exactly

the effects of Petroatum....

On another forum, I was asked about DUBBIN as a dressing for old leather

Here was my reply

"It is important to note that Dubbin or those older leather creams issued to solders or working cowboys were meant to keep the leather moist and functional while they were being used for there original purpose, they were not meant to conserve leather and I would strongly suggest these be avoided.

Dubbin contains Tallow which is derived from beef or Mutton fat, this may attract insects who love to eat this stuff so you'll just invite unwanted critters

Many other members on some other forums have been saying...

"Oh I've been using this or that cream and I can't see any problems"

These collectors do not realize that the changes that occur are at times not visible to the naked eye.

One must also think of preserving the items for when they are gone and the items gets passed on to other collectors.

deterioration does not always happen overnight.

At this point the best suggestion I say is avoid any leather dressings if possible,

but if you must have flexibility then read my post above and think carefully of the pro's and con's

[dutchbarge]

Roger,

I would be very grateful if you would share the content of your phone conversation with the conservator at the Canadian Conservatory re the vaseline in Pecard's.

Cheers, Bill

[4thGordons]

I wonder if I might butt-in whilst the experts are assembled.

What would the suggested course of treatment for the following Ross bayonet scabbard be?

The finish is almost totally absent leaving the surface rough and very dry. You can also see it is torn.

Any suggestions? I know this isn't a rare or important object but I would, at minimum like to prevent any further deterioration and perhaps improve the appearance for display?

TIA

Chris

[scottmarchand]

not much, the red rot is very far gone. keep an eye out for another scabbard. you could consolidate with celugel as roger described above.

[Vimyridge]

Chris

There is not much you can do for the "old boy" at this advanced stage of "red rot"

All you can do is apply two or three coats of CELUGEL

it will consolidate the red rod and stop the red powder from falling away.

Apply the celugel with a small foam paint bush. but only dab it on, do not use back and fourth strokes as you would with paint or you will remove much of the already loose red powder. Let it dry for 5 min then apply two more coats. This will do nothing to make your artifact look better, all it will do is bond the powder

and leather together so they do not continue to fall away.

Remember waxes, creams or lotions should never be applied to materials with deliberately loose or powdery surfaces.

Adding these products will cause the leather to turn into a very dark, thick, goopy, red powder mess that will come apart in your hands

and the damage will be even worst.

Another option is what Scott suggested....try to find a replacement

There is no treatment that will "improve the display"

Celugel can be ordered on line in the UK

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/...ection29_17.htm

Conservation Resources (U.K.), Ltd.

Unit 2, Ashville Way

Off Watlington Road

Cowley, Oxford OX4 6TU

England

Office Hours are 8:30 to 5:30 GMT

Phone: +44 (0) 1865 747755

Fax: +44 (0) 1865 747035

E-mail: ConservArts@aol.com

[4thGordons]

Thanks both ,for confirming what I supposed.

I am actually in the US so I can use your first link for the cellugel, I also have several librarian friends so I will see if they hold any in their restoration stores first .

I am keeping my eyes peeled for a spare scabbard.

Chris

[shippingsteel]

I am keeping my eyes peeled for a spare scabbard.

Chris

Replacement is definitely the way to go in this case. It is a major problem with these bayonets that the scabbards are nearly always found in a fairly ordinary state of repair. The genuine scabbards do appear quite regularly on ebay for under the $100 so I would think hardly worth undertaking any major restorations etc. If you want a better condition scabbard I have seen a genuine WW2 issue "replacement scabbard" on ebay only in the last week. A contract was put out for same pattern scabbards during the second war to overcome this exact problem.

Cheers, S>S

[Vimyridge]

Bill

Sorry for the delay, the conservator did not have the technical data in front of her

but was 100% about avoiding petroleum jelly. If I recall it hardens the leather as time goes on and becomes

stiff and greasy.

Again just stay away from these unless you feel you have too.

[edwin astill]

I suppose the above also relates to the leather bindings on books. Drat - I've been using Pecards, luckily on nothing overly valuable. I actually asked advice from Pecards before using (and recommending to others) and they said it was OK.... but as the 20th Century's finest philosopher said "They would say that, wouldn't they."

Edwin

Edwin

[shippingsteel]

I am keeping my eyes peeled for a spare scabbard.

Chris

As I mentioned previously they do become available for sale quite regularly.

Here's one for you Chris, if you are interested. ROSS SCABBARD

Cheers, S>S

[Vimyridge]

Edwin....

Yes, Pecards told me the same thing..I already knew the answer before I asked them but wanted to know how

knowledgeable they were regarding preservation. As you pointed out, what else do you expect them to say.

I have used all three products I speak about on my antique book from 1723.

First a little celugel and then I used the triple crown.

Avoid Pecards

[dutchbarge]

Bill

Sorry for the delay, the conservator did not have the technical data in front of her

but was 100% about avoiding petroleum jelly. If I recall it hardens the leather as time goes on and becomes

stiff and greasy.

Again just stay away from these unless you feel you have too.

Thanks Roger.......The problem I have with the conservator saying that Pecard's "hardens the leather as time goes on" is that it is in the nature of leather to harden as time goes on. Leather is, after all, dead animal skin whose service life was never intended to be more than a decade or two. Certainly "stiff and greasy" (apart from perhaps in the bedroom) is not how one would want to have his treasured possession described. However, all leather eventually becomes "stiff" given a long enough time frame and "greasy" is certainly the result of a mis-application of product, whatever the type. No one had the foresight to monitor items of leather kit over the past 100 years to see if disintegration or preservation could ultimately be attributed to the quality of the leather originally used in manufacture, the tanning methods employed, the service use, troop's maintenance methods/products, subsequent dying/bleaching, storage methods, environmental conditions, recent collector treatment or the natural process of decay. In the absence of such precise testing we can only wonder at how each of these many individual factor's combined interaction over the past century affected the current condition of our leather collectibles, not to mention their effect upon finding the most effective preservation method. I find it very hard to accept that, in the absence of context (the particular leather item's current condition, the environment it will live in going forward, etc.), any blanket statement about treating or not treating leather with an eye towards preservation can be universal. Each case must certainly be treated on an individual basis. I don't have any particular interest in promoting Pecard's. I have used it for 40 years with good results. Whether its effectiveness is illusory or not I can't be certain. Perhaps my kit, being of officer quality and in very good condition, was of such a pedigree that it could neither be harmed nor helped by the application; or perhaps it is that I only ever it used it once and so sparingly on each item that it had no real effect. Whatever the case I think leather preservation is more of an art than a science. The best advice I can give is to collect items which are in a good state of preservation and ask a long time collector in your area what has worked for him in his effort to preserve his leather kit.

Cheers, Bill

[Vimyridge]

Whatever the case I think leather preservation is more of an art than a science.

I think this comment you made is incorrect, conservation and preservation

is indeed a science studied by serious museum conservator. Understanding the chemistry and effects of

applying certain compounds requires academic study. It's much more than simply stating "I've done it for years and it looks good to me"

Bill I've quite enjoyed our banter about the subject.

I do feel that new collectors or inexperienced collectors should not simply "do what older collectors do"

but research for themselves and listen to the experts.

It anyone out there wants to know more

Email them at ...

cci-icc_services@pch.gc.ca

Or read this public document from the Canadian Conservation Institute which is Government Run

http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/publications/ccin...s-pdf/8-3_e.pdf

http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/crc/notes/html/8-2-eng.aspx

[dutchbarge]

I think this comment you made is incorrect, conservation and preservation

is indeed a science studied by serious museum conservator. Understanding the chemistry and effects of

applying certain compounds requires academic study. It's much more than simply stating "I've done it for years and it looks good to me"

I do feel that new collectors or inexperienced collectors should not simply "do what older collectors do"

but research for themselves and listen to the experts.

Hello Roger,

During my senior year at UC Berkeley, I spent several weeks cutting down ancient eucalyptus trees (and getting a nasty case of poison oak) in the foothills above the campus because several professors (including one Nobel Prize winner) in the Biology Dept. had, after scientific investigation, declared them dead due to an unusual freeze. The 'experts' believed that the only way to prevent a major wildfire from blowing up Strawberry Canyon and into the surrounding residential neighborhoods was to clear away all the dead trees. The 'experts' were mighty embarrassed the following spring when it turned out that none of the trees (despite the learned pronouncements of the geniuses in the Biology Department, which had been studying the trees since they were planted a hundred years earlier) had actually died. Of course this came as no surprise to the old campus greens keeper who had told anyone who would listen to him that in his many years of experience he had observed that such a cold snap, while killing the tree's leaves, would not kill the trees themselves, and that the following spring (as it indeed happened) all the leaves would come back. Science against experience.

This is but one of many in a life full of such experiences that has taught me to be very wary whenever the 'experts' declare that they have found a new 'scientific' solution which runs counter to experience. Even more wary when those 'experts' are involved in academia or government. Anyone remember Margarine? DDT? Mercury fillings? Hi-fiber diets? Fluoridated water?

So I'll hope you forgive me for coming the Luddite when anyone tries to convince me that the 'experts' have solved the age old problem of leather preservation, especially when that solution runs contrary to 40 years of experience.

I think on this one, we'll need to agree to disagree.

Cheers, BIll

[Vimyridge]

Hi Bill

I really have nothing more to add, we will just agree to disagree

but thanks so much for the banter, and I do get your point ...not all so called expert are experts.

These conservationists observations do not come from one single source, but many world sources gathered together with

experience on the subject. Some of the papers I've read are from conferences where many share technical data based on years of "experience"

Anyhow I would very much like to see photos of your collection.

Have you been collecting many years?

Cheers

Roger

[dutchbarge]

Hi Bill

I really have nothing more to add, we will just agree to disagree

but thanks so much for the banter, and I do get your point ...not all so called expert are experts.

These conservationists observations do not come from one single source, but many world sources gathered together with

experience on the subject. Some of the papers I've read are from conferences where many share technical data based on years of "experience"

Anyhow I would very much like to see photos of your collection.

Have you been collecting many years?

Cheers

Roger

Hello Roger,

I suppose I could be wrong and the experts you quote are right.............we'll just have to wait another 100 years to see!

I've been collecting since I bought my first pickelhaube in 1968. Like most enthusiasts my collecting interests have varied a bit over the years, always following one war or another, but always leading back to WW1. I think my earliest inkling of the Great War must have been through my Grandfathers, one of whom served in the Tzar's army, the other in Uncle Sam's. That my Great Grandfather (oh, aye!) was in the Scots Guards probably had something to do with my interest in the UK. So too did the boarding school hours of detention stuck in the stacks of the school's basement library....lots of dusty old WW1 books, periodicals, photos and letters down there! I particularly remember the damp musty smell of The Times Illustrated History of the Great War. After seeing Life Magazine's 50th anniversary issue of the battle of Verdun I decided that I absolutely had to get to the Western Front and see what there was to see. Fortunately my wife has parallel interests and we have clocked several years 'over there' a few weeks or months at a time over the past 30 years.

Over the years I've pruned my collection so that for the most part I only have uniform ensembles to named UK and German officers. Most of the collection is literally in 'moth balls' with only 5 ensembles out (displayed on vintage Royal Dress Forms, young men) at any one time (in, you'll be relieved to know, a humidity and light controlled environment). I rotate what's out periodically......it affords me the opportunity to insure that the storage is working out (no moths, mold, etc.), eliminates having to have kit on a form for too long (the weight of the fabric/leather according to some, although not my own experience, is enough to pull apart stitching) and indulges my appetite for variety. My D.W.M. MG'08/sledge is at the edge of my desk (which is strewn with driving band letter openers, inert (hopefully) ordnance and bits of trench art). Except for the few bits left on my 'wants' list, needed to complete the last few ensembles, I'm now only collecting 'information' on my 'guys'. At various times I've posted a foto or two of my guys' uniform ensembles (only UK so far...no Germans) on the Forum. Seeing the photos of your fabulous collection on the Forum and the skillful manner in which it is displayed started me thinking about getting everything out.......I've never seen the whole collection on display all at once! It would require a bit of planning, something which I find harder to do as the years go by..........the endless energy and ambition of youth is waning! I'm finding it more enjoyable to sit, glass in hand, talking about the project than actually undertaking the serious work it would entail to actually see it through. Soon as the sun gets a bit higher in the sky (next month?) and the light is right I'll be photographing a few more groupings. I'll get them posted on the Forum for you!

Cheers, Bill

[Andrew Upton]

... I rotate what's out periodically......it affords me the opportunity to insure that the storage is working out (no moths, mold, etc.), eliminates having to have kit on a form for too long (the weight of the fabric/leather according to some, although not my own experience, is enough to pull apart stitching) ...

Believe it - the Oxfam "Hub" I volunteer for has been dealing with loads of original ex-Angels kit that spent most of its life on thin wire hangers, and it's a crying shame seeing some of the really early stuff where the shoulder stitching has just disintegrated through being hung like that under the clothings own weight. Much worse than on a manikin, but the effect, though slower, is the same ultimately.

[dutchbarge]

Believe it - the Oxfam "Hub" I volunteer for has been dealing with loads of original ex-Angels kit that spent most of its life on thin wire hangers, and it's a crying shame seeing some of the really early stuff where the shoulder stitching has just disintegrated through being hung like that under the clothings own weight. Much worse than on a manikin, but the effect, though slower, is the same ultimately.

Hello Andrew,

Agree....my kit has so far avoided that sad fate by being on a dress form for only 2 months per year. I do a bi-monthly rotation of uniform groupings which affords the opportunity to inspect both the kit coming out of storage, and that coming off the dress forms. Selfish I suppose to display it thus, and even though I am aware it does them no good, I have to have a few out so that I can enjoy them.........after I'm gone a more responsible sort can pack them away and bring them out only to show to researchers!

Odd though that the uniform on the mannequin at Le Tommy, out of doors for much of the year, in sunshine or rain, seems indestructible...almost eternal!

Cheers, Bill

[Vimyridge]

Hi Bill/Andrew

Bill,I look forward to seeing your collection, I can just imagine the "stuff" you must have.

Well unfortunately, you and Andrew are both correct when it comes to tunics on torso's.

The best form or preservation is for tunics to be stored on acid free tissue in a metal drawer cabinet .....but let's be realistic, we are collectors

and want to see what we collect from time to time. I think Bill has a great Idea of rotating the artifacts, this is what most large museums do..although ,

not all. In my situation, I know it can and will cause stress on the shoulder seams of the tunics so I try to stuff my torso's in a way that will cause the least amount of seam stress. Another thing I do on the delicate tunics, ..and this may be difficult to explain

I buy the longest and thinnest upholstery needles, three of them and insert them under the arms, past the wool, into the foam torso....the ends that stick out ( aprox' 4")

are then inserted into the reverse of the sleeve. This helps shift some of the weight from the shoulder seam to the back of the sleeve.

It's a bit hard to explain but it helps.

Bill, I enjoyed reading how you got into militaria and when you bought your first helmet.

Looking forward to photos one day. P.S. is that you as a child holding a toy pistol on your personal photo?

Cheers

Roger