18th King's Royal Rifle Corps

[Perth Digger]

As all the sources say that the 18th (Service) Bn (Arts and Crafts) KRRC was formed at Gidea Park, Essex on 4 June 1915, under the auspices of Major Sir Herbert Raphael (a noted promoter of the Arts and Crafts movement), I had assumed that most of the first recruits up to their embarkation to France in May 1916 would have come from London and south-eastern England. But I have been checking the homes of the more than one hundred 18th O/Rs killed on 15/9/1916 and have noticed that most seem to have come from the midlands and the West Riding: Buxton, Burton-on-Trent, Halifax, Huddersfield etc. In fact, they look like a "Pennine" battalion. Can anyone explain how this may have come about? The battalion numbers are in the C/6000 to C/7999 range.

Thanks.

[MBrockway]

Raphael's parliamentary constituency was South Derbyshire and IIRC? most of his early industrial/commercial interests were in the North and East Midlands.

That area and Essex were his power bases and where he had greatest influence.

This was reflected in the 18/KRRC recruitment figures.

Incidentally these areas are traditionally strong areas for KRRC recruitment in general.

There were several extensive threads on this about 18 months back I think - have you tried a Search here on the Forum? If you include my ID and Arts Crafts, &/or Raphael you'll probably turn them up!

Meantime I'll check my notes later tonight.

Cheers,

Mark

[MBrockway]

Looking through some of my notes, it seems Raphael's money was mostly from banking, so I'm now not quite so sure about the extent of his industrial/commercial interests in S Yorks/E Midlands.

However he was one of the richest men in the country at the time and his political power base in S Derbyshire was clearly extensive, and one would imagine he did not hesitate to make use of his constituency party machine to recruit for the 18th and 23rd battalions.

As well as being the local MP, he was also a Derbyshire magistrate.

From memory, he was a popular and well regarded MP.

Incidentally current opinion has the Service Number range allocated to 18th Battalion being C/6000 through C/8999, not as previously published C/7999, but several of us are still researching this to come to a conclusive position.

Don't forget also that all battalions of the KRRC recruited nationally regardless of where they were raised.

Cheers,

Mark

[Chris Noble]

Hi Perth.

Quite a few from the North. William is just one lad.

His father was quite influential in various circles and a noted farmer in the area. William received an education 'fitting' of his social status.

Name: SMITH, WILLIAM WHEELHOUSE

Initials: W W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Rifleman

Regiment/Service: King's Royal Rifle Corps

Unit Text: 18th Bn.

Age: 23

Date of Death: 09/10/1916

Service No: R/25069

Additional information: Son of the late William Smith and of Elizabeth Mary Smith, of Linton Hills, Wetherby, Yorks.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 13 A and 13 B.

Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Kindest regards

Chris

[MBrockway]

Hi Perth.

Quite a few from the North. William is just one lad.

His father was quite influential in various circles and a noted farmer in the area. William received an education 'fitting' of his social status.

Name: SMITH, WILLIAM WHEELHOUSE

Initials: W W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Rifleman

Regiment/Service: King's Royal Rifle Corps

Unit Text: 18th Bn.

Age: 23

Date of Death: 09/10/1916

Service No: R/25069

Additional information: Son of the late William Smith and of Elizabeth Mary Smith, of Linton Hills, Wetherby, Yorks.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 13 A and 13 B.

Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Kindest regards

Chris

Chris,

Ironically Wetherby is in the heart of the recruiting grounds of 21st Battalion KRRC (Yeoman Rifles) and prosperous farmers' sons were exactly the type of men Lord Feversham had in mind when he raised the Yeoman Rifles!

Quite surprising that your chap went into 18/KRRC instead.

Incidentally that Service Number points to a late Derby Scheme man, so the choice of battalion may not have been his own.

Cheers,

Mark

[Perth Digger]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the information and the search advice. I should have put Raphael's constituency together with the recruitment area to reach a sensible conclusion, but failed to do so!

I've done some work on another 122nd Brigade Battalion, 11/RWKents (Lewisham), and the recruitment pattern is very different (both were recruiting at about the same time). 59% of the RWKs (killed or DOW 15-17/9/1916 is my sample) came from the Lewisham registration district; 32% from contiguous registration districts (Greenwich, Croydon, Bermondsey etc); only 9% from elsewhere. The sample is about 10% of the battalion and I've checked names with the 1911 census. There may have been a group connected to the printing trade that might be called 'pals' in the strict sense, but otherwise nothing sticks out. But it would have been a much more homogeneous unit than the 18/KRRC. I'm still doing the same process with 18/KRRC and will let you know the results if you're interested.

Mike

Looking through some of my notes, it seems Raphael's money was mostly from banking, so I'm now not quite so sure about the extent of his industrial/commercial interests in S Yorks/E Midlands.

However he was one of the richest men in the country at the time and his political power base in S Derbyshire was clearly extensive, and one would imagine he did not hesitate to make use of his constituency party machine to recruit for the 18th and 23rd battalions.

As well as being the local MP, he was also a Derbyshire magistrate.

From memory, he was a popular and well regarded MP.

Incidentally current opinion has the Service Number range allocated to 18th Battalion being C/6000 through C/8999, not as previously published C/7999, but several of us are still researching this to come to a conclusive position.

Don't forget also that all battalions of the KRRC recruited nationally regardless of where they were raised.

Cheers,

Mark

[CGM]

I remember asking a fairly relevent question a while ago, and it did produce some interesting answers.

See Here

[MBrockway]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the information and the search advice. I should have put Raphael's constituency together with the recruitment area to reach a sensible conclusion, but failed to do so!

I've done some work on another 122nd Brigade Battalion, 11/RWKents (Lewisham), and the recruitment pattern is very different (both were recruiting at about the same time). 59% of the RWKs (killed or DOW 15-17/9/1916 is my sample) came from the Lewisham registration district; 32% from contiguous registration districts (Greenwich, Croydon, Bermondsey etc); only 9% from elsewhere. The sample is about 10% of the battalion and I've checked names with the 1911 census. There may have been a group connected to the printing trade that might be called 'pals' in the strict sense, but otherwise nothing sticks out. But it would have been a much more homogeneous unit than the 18/KRRC. I'm still doing the same process with 18/KRRC and will let you know the results if you're interested.

Mike

Mike,

I'd certainly be interested in your results, but I'm not sure why you're expecting to see similar recruitment patterns between a KRRC battalion and a RWK battalion.

The RWK were a standard county regiment who had a recognised recruitment territory roughly centred on (no surprise) West Kent - i.e. the urban areas of S and SE London historically belonging to Kent.

Until approx mid 1916 the county regiments maintained these traditional territories quite well, with recruits being dominated by the men local to the regiment's stamping ground.

With the arrival of Conscription, men had much less choice over where they were sent, but the regimental system rumbled on, so there was still to a certain extent a connection between where a man enlisted and his probable regiment.

This broke down with the establishment of the Training Reserve in late 1916 and allocation was on a needs-only basis. Furthermore it was not uncommon for a man to arrive at the Infantry Base Depot in Etaples and be transferred to a different regiment before he even reached his original one at the Front.

The King's Royal Rifle Corps was completely different.

The KRRC was one of a small number of elite infantry units that had no county territory but recruited nationally¹.

Even the later "Pals" battalions raised at specific localities (16th onwards) also drew men from the rest of the country via the rifles national recruitment machinery - they were never as geographically concentrated in the same way as the Pals battalions from the industrial towns etc.

The KRRC (and Rifle Brigade) battalions did not need a common geography to create homogeneity - they had the rifles traditions, their historic reputation as elite units, and the unique drill etc. that marked them out as different.

I'd be very interested to see your figures nevertheless: as far as I know, no-one has done such analysis of a later KRRC battalion and it would certainly help understand how conscription and the Training Reserve affected the make-up of the battalion.

I have long suspected that the rifles regiments were able to keep their allocated conscripts outside the main TR "sausage machine" and protect their drafts from being re-allocated as they went through the IBD (probably citing the different drills, marching techniques, bugle calls etc. etc.) but your research may well cast very useful light into that area.

A valuable bit of work.

Cheers,

Mark

¹Only a small group of regiments/corps recruited nationally (or more accurately, had no formal recruitment "territory" allocated to them): the Foot Guards; KRRC and Rifle Brigade; Household Cavalry; Cavalry of the Line (i.e. non-Yeomanry); Royal Engineers; artillery - RHA, RFA and RGA; RFC; plus the various support corps: ASC; RAMC; AOC; RMP; Army Pay Corps; and Army Veterinary Corps; and lastly for the duration of the War, the Army Cyclist Corps!

[Perth Digger]

Mark

I don't think I was expecting similar recruiting patterns (one reason for looking at various battalions started at roughly the same time). But the secondary literature certainly seems to have assumed a) that 18/KRRC was recruited in the south (eg, statements that 41st Division was primarily southern except for 21/KRRC and 20/DLI); and that 18/KRRC was recruited from around Essex and east London. My knowledge of the various Rifle Brigades, including the 60th, ends with the death of General Craufurd in 1812, so I was unaware that they had national recruiting policies in the Great War. I haven't looked at 21/KRRC yet, but I had assumed that most recruits would have come from Feversham's area + possibly some from his wife's region of Warwickshire. I may well be found to be wrong in that assumption too. The main reason why I had thought that recruitment would have followed similar lines for all 41st Division battalions was that they are all on the War Office documentation as being 'privately' raised in 1915. I have now read the thread on the Pals' battalions and see that things are not simple (and even controversial).

Perhaps one may look at this issue in this way: local authorities who were asked to raise battalions at this time did recruit very locally; individuals (often MPs) asked or offering to raise battalions had wider areas of recruitmment, because of their private networks; and elite battalions built on either of the former's efforts and added recruits from wherever? The question is: why were Raphael and Feversham allowed to raise KRRC battalions? Why not battalions attached to their local areas? Raphael after all was already linked to the Royal Fusiliers. Another MP, Joynson Hicks, raised a battalion at the same time, 23/Middlesex. But he had close links with that regiment, having already raised the 1st Football battalion. So I can understand that decision. I suppose what I am now asking you is: why did the KRRC accept what became the 18th and 21st battalions? Was it the choice of Raphael and Feversham, or did the regiment make the decision? (I'm not really expecting you to answer this with authority, just thinking aloud!!).

Thanks for your interest.

Mike

Mike,

I'd certainly be interested in your results, but I'm not sure why you're expecting to see similar recruitment patterns between a KRRC battalion and a RWK battalion.

The RWK were a standard county regiment who had a recognised recruitment territory roughly centred on (no surprise) West Kent - i.e. the urban areas of S and SE London historically belonging to Kent.

Until approx mid 1916 the county regiments maintained these traditional territories quite well, with recruits being dominated by the men local to the regiment's stamping ground.

With the arrival of Conscription, men had much less choice over where they were sent, but the regimental system rumbled on, so there was still to a certain extent a connection between where a man enlisted and his probable regiment.

This broke down with the establishment of the Training Reserve in late 1916 and allocation was on a needs-only basis. Furthermore it was not uncommon for a man to arrive at the Infantry Base Depot in Etaples and be transferred to a different regiment before he even reached his original one at the Front.

The King's Royal Rifle Corps was completely different.

The KRRC was one of a small number of elite infantry units that had no county territory but recruited nationally¹.

Even the later "Pals" battalions raised at specific localities (16th onwards) also drew men from the rest of the country via the rifles national recruitment machinery - they were never as geographically concentrated in the same way as the Pals battalions from the industrial towns etc.

The KRRC (and Rifle Brigade) battalions did not need a common geography to create homogeneity - they had the rifles traditions, their historic reputation as elite units, and the unique drill etc. that marked them out as different.

I'd be very interested to see your figures nevertheless: as far as I know, no-one has done such analysis of a later KRRC battalion and it would certainly help understand how conscription and the Training Reserve affected the make-up of the battalion.

I have long suspected that the rifles regiments were able to keep their allocated conscripts outside the main TR "sausage machine" and protect their drafts from being re-allocated as they went through the IBD (probably citing the different drills, marching techniques, bugle calls etc. etc.) but your research may well cast very useful light into that area.

A valuable bit of work.

Cheers,

Mark

¹Only a small group of regiments/corps recruited nationally (or more accurately, had no formal recruitment "territory" allocated to them): the Foot Guards; KRRC and Rifle Brigade; Household Cavalry; Cavalry of the Line (i.e. non-Yeomanry); Royal Engineers; artillery - RHA, RFA and RGA; RFC; plus the various support corps: ASC; RAMC; AOC; RMP; Army Pay Corps; and Army Veterinary Corps; and lastly for the duration of the War, the Army Cyclist Corps!

[MBrockway]

... The question is: why were Raphael and Feversham allowed to raise KRRC battalions? Why not battalions attached to their local areas? ... Raphael after all was already linked to the Royal Fusiliers. ... I suppose what I am now asking you is: why did the KRRC accept what became the 18th and 21st battalions? Was it the choice of Raphael and Feversham, or did the regiment make the decision? (I'm not really expecting you to answer this with authority, just thinking aloud!!).

Mike

Mike,

These questions had occurred to me too, and it's an interesting issue.

I've been looking into Earl Feversham and the Yeoman Rifles (21/KRRC) rather than Raphael.

Here's what the 1916 KRRC Chronicle says about the raising of the Yeoman Rifles ...

In the Autumn of 1915, in consequence of the number of men of the farmer and yeoman class who were believed to be holding back from enlisting, it was decided that a Battalion composed of such men should be raised in the hopes that they would welcome service with those of their own ideas and manner of life. This hope was amply justified.

In order to make the Battalion additionally attractive, it formed part of the King's Royal Rifle Corps, but the success of the scheme depended on the choice of the first Commanding Officer, and in the Earl of Feversham an ideal selection was made.

In April, 1915, he took to France the Yorkshire Hussars, in which he had long served, but the Regiment being broken up into Divisional Cavalry, its Commanding Officer became surplus to requirements, and when offered the Command of the " Yeoman Rifles" he gladly accepted.

So, several useful pointers there:

• ( a ) Feversham did not instigate the raising of the battalion;
• ( b ) choice of Feversham was partly due to his connections in the Yorkshire area (MP, major local landowner & aristocrat, local Yeomanry) and partly simply because he became available with the breaking up of the Cavalry Division; and
• ( c ) the affiliation with the KRRC was deliberate in order to make the batalion more attractive to recruits.

Still pursuing this so I'll post again with more when I get it. It would be very interesting to find out more about who exactly was behind the "it was decided ..." in the first paragraph of my extract above!

Cheers,

Mark

[Perth Digger]

Hi Mark

Many thanks for both considering the issue and for the quote from the Chronicle. I wonder if Feversham was making a nuisance of himself at the War Office, or was using his political contacts? He certainly was an enthusiast. Anthony Eden quotes him as saying on the evening before Flers: "The real thing at last, thank goodness".

I've finished the spreadsheet of the ORs killed or DOW on 15 to 17/9/1916 among 18/KRRC (based on CWGC, MIC, SDGW and census records). If you're interested and if you can send me a message with your email address, I'll send you a copy.

Cheers

Mike

Mike,

These questions had occurred to me too, and it's an interesting issue.

I've been looking into Earl Feversham and the Yeoman Rifles (21/KRRC) rather than Raphael.

Here's what the 1916 KRRC Chronicle says about the raising of the Yeoman Rifles ...

In the Autumn of 1915, in consequence of the number of men of the farmer and yeoman class who were believed to be holding back from enlisting, it was decided that a Battalion composed of such men should be raised in the hopes that they would welcome service with those of their own ideas and manner of life. This hope was amply justified.

In order to make the Battalion additionally attractive, it formed part of the King's Royal Rifle Corps, but the success of the scheme depended on the choice of the first Commanding Officer, and in the Earl of Feversham an ideal selection was made.

In April, 1915, he took to France the Yorkshire Hussars, in which he had long served, but the Regiment being broken up into Divisional Cavalry, its Commanding Officer became surplus to requirements, and when offered the Command of the " Yeoman Rifles" he gladly accepted.

So, several useful pointers there:

• ( a ) Feversham did not instigate the raising of the battalion;
• ( b ) choice of Feversham was partly due to his connections in the Yorkshire area (MP, major local landowner & aristocrat, local Yeomanry) and partly simply because he became available with the breaking up of the Cavalry Division; and
• ( c ) the affiliation with the KRRC was deliberate in order to make the batalion more attractive to recruits.

Still pursuing this so I'll post again with more when I get it. It would be very interesting to find out more about who exactly was behind the "it was decided ..." in the first paragraph of my extract above!

Cheers,

Mark

[MBrockway]

Hi Mark

Many thanks for both considering the issue and for the quote from the Chronicle. I wonder if Feversham was making a nuisance of himself at the War Office, or was using his political contacts? He certainly was an enthusiast. Anthony Eden quotes him as saying on the evening before Flers: "The real thing at last, thank goodness".

Mike

Mike,

I'm not sure how much he pushed for the appointment, or whether the military authorities sought him out. He had certainly displayed a flair for motivation and organisation when he had knocked the Yorkshire Yeomanry into shape and taken to the Front.

Here's how it's described in his Obituary in the 1916 KRRC Chronicle:

Happily married, filling a high position, possessed of much ability, activity, health and strength, a great career awaited him when in August, 1914, the long-foretold storm burst.

He, then Major in the Yorkshire Hussars (the Colonel failing to pass the doctors) was appointed to command the first line, which he organised and trained for the field.

In April, 1915, he took the Regiment to France, and on it being broken up into Divisional Cavalry he accepted an offer to raise the Yeoman Rifles (21st Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps) from the farmers and yeomen of the Northern Command. The Battalion was quickly recruited and assembled at his home, Duncombe Park, Helmsley, whence it moved in January, 1916, to Aldershot, forming part of the 124th Brigade.

I read that as meaning he was to raise the YR from among the farmers etc. rather than it was the farmers etc. who made the offer.

As you know, Feversham was quite a character: he took his deerhound into the Line with him and it was apparently interred with him.

Cheers,

Mark

PS ...

As a trivial technical Tip, if you Reply by using the "Add Reply" or "Fast Reply" button just below the final Post in the Topic instead of the plain "Reply" button, then the text from the previous Post is not included in your reply.

Alternatively you can use the "Reply" button but press the "+ Quote" button next to it first. That toggles between including the other Pal's text or not. Once you've pressed it, it should change to read "- Quote" then when you press "Reply" the previous poster's material is not included.

Lastly even when you do include the earlier text as a "Quotation" you can always shorten it by editing.

It's just a bit laborious for the Pals having to scroll through great chunks of repeated material and it also eats valuable storage increasing the costs of providing the website, so you'll be popular with the Mods and Trustees too

[Michael Ashton]

A little late to this Recruiting topic, but have come across this note from Herbert Raphael C/O 18th authorising Lt Philip George Sadd (of Burton on Trent ) to recruit for the 18th (Service) Battalion, KRRC. 

Found in the family album with the accompanying photo. Hope it’s of interest. (PG Sadd is a GtGt Uncle)

 

[MBrockway]

Welcome to the Forum Michael.

 

There are a couple of nice pictures of your GGUncle in this post here:

 

I reproduce them here also for convenience ...

 

 

 

You'll likely find the rest of that topic interesting too.

 

How much do you already know about Phillip SADD?

 

Mark

[MBrockway]

Phillip Sadd originally enlisted into 24th (Service) Bn, Royal Fusiliers (2nd Sportsman's).

 

He transferred into 18/KRRC along with a number of others from the 2nd Sportsman's including Herbert Raphael, who raised the new battalion.

 

I think the photo of the Royal Fusiliers Sergeant-Major may be E. MERRICK, who was the RSM of 2nd Sportsman's in 1915.

 

Phillip SADD was Captain of Burton RFC and also an accomplished boxer - twice Middleweight champion of the Midland Counties.

 

He was killed in action at FLERS on 15 Sep 1916 during the battle to capture FLERS.

 

His body was not positively identified until 1931.  The identification was by a ring engraved on the outside "P.G.S." and on this inside "W.A.C.  19th May 1913" . As yet, I have not manage to identify "W.A.C." and can find no marriage for Philip SADD.

 

Mark

[Michael Ashton]

Many thanks for this Mark. 

 

As far as I can find out he was not married, so the inscription is intriguing. I am asking what little family I know. 

 

 

I have recently found the reburial information from CWGC and cross referenced with WW1 trench maps. 

 

Among the photos I have is this one, sent to the family. It appears to be the memorial marking the oringinal grave of Phillip George Sadd and the soliders who perished alongside. I'm sure this will be of intrest to other families and I will try and get a better scan.

 

I've also posted two more photos of Major Sadd - with and without hat!

 

I have two professionally taken photos of PGS in boxing garb (as well as his orginal gloves) which I will also post . 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Mike Ashton

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 June , 2020 by Michael AShton
spelling

[MBrockway]

Fantastic!   Thanks Michael.

 

I'll see what else I have on him too.

 

Mark

 

[Michael Ashton]

I've created an album, so not to clog up this thread. Struggling to edit some of the formatting, but I'll put all the photos in there!

 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/gallery/album/1283-major-philip-george-sadd/

 

Edited 2 June , 2020 by Michael Ashton

[David_Blanchard]

Two Langford Brothers, JJ and WG - both in 18 KRRC- great to JJ Langford's name is on the bottom of the original cross. His brother WG Langford dow on 27 June. Portraits from Croydon and the Great War.

Edited 4 July , 2020 by David_Blanchard