graeme gt Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 Hi Guys,Is this frog original to this A&SH bayonet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 This is the 1938 patten frog. regards. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 This is the 1938 patten frog. regards. Tom So it would depend on the year of production of the bayonet. If it is a WWII produced bayonet then the answer may be yes, if it is a WWI produced but WWII reissue bayonet it would not be "original" to the bayonet but it would be "correct" for WWII service. If your question is - "is this a WWI bayonet frog" then see Tom's answer! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme gt Posted 23 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2010 Its dated 1907 and got a star above an S on the rear grip,did these bayos carry on to WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 Its dated 1907 and got a star above an S on the rear grip,did these bayos carry on to WW2. That'll be the Pattern designation if it's under a crown, as it's a 1907 Pattern bayonet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 Its dated 1907 and got a star above an S on the rear grip,did these bayos carry on to WW2. As Andrew indicates that is the pattern year (ie the year the design was appoved) The date of procution is usually under this in the form of month year (so 07 '16) would be July 1916 etc the maker is usually along the bottom (Sanderson, Wilikinson, EFD, Lithgow, Remington, RFI(Ishapore), Vickers etc) although sometimes it is tough to read on the other side of the blade (usually) there may be reissue dates (just year) such as '27 (1927) and yes - these continued in service throughout WWII (and beyond in both India and Australia) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme gt Posted 23 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2010 More pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 More pics. Difficult to see but looks to me like a Wilkinson made bayonet made in November (11) of ? (I can't read the yearin the pic) but during the reign of George rather than Edward (GR) the fact that it has the clearance hole in the pommel indicates that it was made post Dec 1915 (or reworked post 1915) - LoC para 17692 authourised the reintroduction of this feature (present on the Pat 1888/1903) Again it is hard to see but does it look like this clearance hole was drilled after the unit stamping? (it seems to cut through it) - if so this would indicate a refinishing. the *S is not something with which I am familiar Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 the *S is not something with which I am familiar I'm wondering if the "star" is in fact two broad arrows point-to-point, and the S reinforces the fact it was "sold" at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme gt Posted 23 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2010 Some close up pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 touching arrows is a sold out of service mark and means it is obsolete. The bayonet was originally issued in November 1915. Regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 The "star" may indeed be the sold out of service mark but it usually looks like On rifles armourers use an * (asterisk) to indicate rust, Skennerton mentions this mark also in the context of bayonets so I am not sure. Sold out of Service sounds more plausible. Do I see a number prior to the A&SH? The T at the top is probably part of the unit marking so T ?9? A & S H. It does look to me as though the hole in the pommel goes through the original rack number - so, if that is the case it was added later at a refinish - and it looks to me as though there is a 1938 reissue date stamped on the right hand side of the blade ('38) which would (to return to the original question) mean that the frog is appropriate for this bayonet in its later use. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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