Essex Regiment

[Bob2000]

The Essex Regiment Museum is closed to the public at the moment so I thought I would come here for some advice (or perhaps a link to a source of advice) on how to find the regiment number for a relative.

According to the 1911 census, my Walthamstow-born great uncle Henry ("Harry") Mead was a 23-year-old telegraphist in "B" Company of the 1st Bn. Essex Regiment, White Barracks, Quetta, Baluchistan, India under the command of Major General Sclater (Captain George Newcombe Algernon Wood, Lieutenant Frederick Arthur Hamilton, Lieutenant James Fenton)

But Harry's marriage certificate in 1917 shows him to be a private in the "2nd E. R.", which I assume to be the 2nd Essex Regiment. His address in 1917 was 61 Lucey Rd., Bermondsey.

Was it rare or commonplace for a soldier to change from the 1st to 2nd Regiment, please? I wonder if the Harry Mead above are two different people.

Unfortunately, I don't have any other information like regiment number, or even if he survived the war. I have searched the Ancestry website and The National Archives without success. Maybe his records were destroyed in WW2.

[MelPack]

Hello Bob

welcome to the Board.

If you go to the LLT here: http://www.1914-1918.net/essex.htm you will see that the Ist Battalion returned to the UK via Mauritius in December 1914 and was then sent to Gallipoli via Egypt in March 1915 (sailed 21 March 1915).

The pre-war regular 8417 H. Mead landed in France on 24 March 1915 and served as a reinforcement with the 2nd Essex. It could be that his skills as a telegraphist resulted in his transfer from the 1st to the 2nd Battalion or it could be that a decision was taken to replenish the 2nd Battalion with an element of regulars from the 1st.

Whatever the reason, a transfer between battalions was certainly not unusual and as the war progressed transfers between regiments became commonplace.

Mel

[owen4256]

8417 indicates enlistment in May 1904. The only other pre-war H Meads both enlisted too late to be in Quetta in 1911. 8417 Mead transferred to Class B reserve from 2nd Essex on 8th February 1914. He was reported wounded twice during the war: on 15th October 1915 in the Essex Chronicle and on 6th December 1918 in the War Office Weekly List. The 15th October lists was an amalgamated list of 2nd Essex men who had been wounded in April and May 1915 but not previously reported.

The 1st Essex was overseas in 1914 so at full strength and most of the recalled reservist therefore went to 2nd Essex. As Mel says transfers between battalions were common before the war. It would have been normal for him to have gone to the home battalion (2nd Essex) for at least a year before serving overseas.

Regards

Clive

[Bob2000]

Thanks so much for your help, gentlemen.

I have found the medals card of Pte. 8417 H. Mead. Is there any way I can determine whether he survived the war and when (if) he was demobilized, please?

[Peridot]

Thanks so much for your help, gentlemen.

I have found the medals card of Pte. 8417 H. Mead. Is there any way I can determine whether he survived the war and when (if) he was demobilized, please?

Hi Bob

You could look in the volumes Soldiers Died in the Great War or do a search of CWGC records and if he is not listed there would be a strong presumption he survived the War. Date of de-mob not so easy without service record.

Peridot

[Bob2000]

8417 Mead transferred to Class B reserve from 2nd Essex on 8th February 1914.

H. Mead landed in France on 24 March 1915 and served as a reinforcement with the 2nd Essex.

Please forgive my ignorance but are the two statements above consistent? Would H. Mead have transferred from the 2nd Essex in Feb 1914 and then transferred back in March 1915?

Or do I misunderstand the way the service operated?

[At Home Dad]

Bob

on the right hand side of the MiC, it will show a date

and give a remark, for example KIA 27/8/16 or Cl Z 18/8/19

The first obviously regards killed in action, the other demobilisation.

There are a few variations, so best to post what's written on the

card or post a scan

Just found this on Ancestry, may help you get started interpreting

All the best

scrub that! I just looked at the MiC and there's no remarks! So, I guess he survived?

Thanks so much for your help, gentlemen.

I have found the medals card of Pte. 8417 H. Mead. Is there any way I can determine whether he survived the war and when (if) he was demobilized, please?

[MelPack]

Please forgive my ignorance but are the two statements above consistent?

Bob

The two statements are not consistent. I had assumed that there was continuous service as a regular but Clive has kindly confirmed that you man was transferred to the reserves in February 1914. I am a little surprised that your manwas not sent to France before March 1915 given the losses sustained by the 2nd Battalion.

mel

[Bob2000]

Bob

The two statements are not consistent. I had assumed that there was continuous service as a regular but Clive has kindly confirmed that you man was transferred to the reserves in February 1914. I am a little surprised that your manwas not sent to France before March 1915 given the losses sustained by the 2nd Battalion.

mel

Mel - please take me slowly through this as I am new to military history.

Is this the right chronology?...

Harry Mead served 1st ER in Quetta.

At some point between 1911 and 1914 he was transferred from 1st ER to 2nd ER but kept his regimental number (8417).

8417 Mead transferred to Class B reserve from 2nd ER on 8th February 1914. I assume that a reservist is a civilian who is still trained by the regiment.

8417 Mead was then recalled from being a reserve to be part of 2nd ER 'proper' and was sent to France on 24 March 1915

Is that correct? You can see from the terminology I'm using that I'm new to this.

[owen4256]

Bob

Your chronology is right.

Joined 1904. After basic training at the Warley depot he would have gone to the 2nd Essex for further training since they were the Home Service battalion at the time. At some point after 1 year's service and reaching the age of 19 he would have gone to 1st Essex as the overseas battalion. For argument's sake 1906. Until at least 1911 he was with the 1st. Between 1911 and 1914 he went back to the 2nd.

Still the same regiment so no number change.

His colour service is not typical. Most enlisted for 7 years with the colours and 5 on the reserve. If serving overseas at the the 7 year point the service obligation would become 8 colours/4 reserve. You could opt to extend colour service and reduce reserve obligation by the same amount as Mead seems to have done. Either way his first term of engagement would have expired in 1916. By then he would have been caught by the Military Service Acts and so retained until the end of the war. There is no evidence that he signed up for a full 21 years.

Class B reserve was regimental rather than battalion specific. There was no distinction between 1st/2nd Bn reservists, they were all simply Essex Regiment and on recall in August 1914 went to the battalion most in need. As Mel says, he was late to France for a man with such recent colour service who would have needed little refresher training. As a signal specialist he may well have gone to the depot for a while or the 3rd training battalion before going overseas with the 2nd.

Don't suppose my photograph of B Company, 1st Essex at Quetta in 1910 would be of any interest.

Regards

Clive

[Bob2000]

Don't suppose my photograph of B Company, 1st Essex at Quetta in 1910 would be of any interest.

Not half, it would! Thanks, Clive, I'll PM my email address if that's OK.

How did 'MelPack' find out that H. Mead landed in France on 24 March 1915 and served as a reinforcement with the 2nd Essex? Is there a chance that Mead could have gone to France earlier and then come back home before going again in March 1915?

Mead married in Bermondsey on 3rd December 1917. I guess that he would have been allowed home leave for short period?

8417 Mead transferred to Class B reserve from 2nd Essex on 8th February 1914. He was reported wounded twice during the war: on 15th October 1915 in the Essex Chronicle and on 6th December 1918 in the War Office Weekly List. The 15th October lists was an amalgamated list of 2nd Essex men who had been wounded in April and May 1915 but not previously reported.

Clive, I looked at the diary of the 2nd Essex Regiment for Nov/Dec 1918 and they were in France but seemed to occupy themselves with drills, parades and recreation. Is it likely that the report of Mead's wounding in War Office Weekly List on 6th December 1918 referred to time several months before?

Thanks for your help, Clive. I've learned a huge amount since joining this forum.

[owen4256]

"Is it likely that the report of Mead's wounding in War Office Weekly List on 6th December 1918 referred to time several months before?"

See my other post. I believe it would refer to the action of 25th October IF he was still with 2nd Battalion

C

[Bob2000]

"Is it likely that the report of Mead's wounding in War Office Weekly List on 6th December 1918 referred to time several months before?"

See my other post. I believe it would refer to the action of 25th October IF he was still with 2nd Battalion

C

Clive - just seen this. Thank you for posting the information.

[owen4256]

B Company at Quetta 1910.

[Bob2000]

8417 indicates enlistment in May 1904. The only other pre-war H Meads both enlisted too late to be in Quetta in 1911.

Just been reading this webpage

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/200...x-regiment.html

which indicates that Essex Regiment service number 8417 would fall between the following dates

8337 issued on 20th January 1905

8596 issued on 29th March 1906

Does that website have some errors or could I be reading it wrongly?

[Great photos by the way and I hope that my email (of appreciation) found its way to you. ]

[owen4256]

8402 21-Aug-05

8405 28-Aug-03

8439 28-Sep-05

Much appreciated the tactful way that you did not question my data...

Prepared to admit I might have transcribed the date wrong as above and read the 5 as a 3. The automatic spreadsheet lookup will have done the rest. After a recount I would be happy to change my estimate to August 1905...

Glad you liked the pictures

Clive

[Bob2000]

8402 21-Aug-05

8405 28-Aug-03

8439 28-Sep-05

Much appreciated the tactful way that you did not question my data...

Prepared to admit I might have transcribed the date wrong as above and read the 5 as a 3. The automatic spreadsheet lookup will have done the rest. After a recount I would be happy to change my estimate to August 1905...

Glad you liked the pictures

Clive

Thanks for that and I am chuffed to bits with the photos.

This website has been a terrific resource and I have learned so much. (And so has my wife who kidnapped my log in for a while!)

[Ed Woods]

Many thanks for this thread. My Grandfather Edward Jemson was in H Company 1st Battalion Essex Regiment and was in Quetta in 1911 (A Google search of Essex Regiment Quetta guided me to this forum). Following some of the links I have discovered he was in Gallipoli, Egypt (would explain the Sphinx and Pyramid tatooes he apparently had!) and Palestine. I have now discovered thanks to this thread why he had 3 regimental numbers and what 1/5 Essex was. Have also discovered tonight he was mentioned in dispatches and was mentioned in the London Gazette - have ordered a copy of 'With the 1/5th in the East'. Next task is trying to discover exactly why he was mentioned in dispatches.

I like Owen4256's photo of B Company - gives me an idea of the uniform my Grandfather wore - if only a picture of H Company existed

[owen4256]

Ed

Burrows history of the Essex territorials has on P173, referring to awards for the first battle of Gaza March 1917: "Pte Edward Jemson succoured many wounded under heavy fire" he will have been MID for that action

He was reported wounded with the 2nd Essex in the casualty list published in the Essex Chronicle of 12.2.15, others in that list were actually wounded on 18th November 1914. On the 18th A Company had 6 killed and 14 wounded when they were heavily shelled whlist in reserve at the edge of Ploegstreet Wood.

Ah, if only a picture of H Company at Quetta existed...

Regards

Clive

[Ed Woods]

Ed

Burrows history of the Essex territorials has on P173, referring to awards for the first battle of Gaza March 1917: "Pte Edward Jemson succoured many wounded under heavy fire" he will have been MID for that action

He was reported wounded with the 2nd Essex in the casualty list published in the Essex Chronicle of 12.2.15, others in that list were actually wounded on 18th November 1914. On the 18th A Company had 6 killed and 14 wounded when they were heavily shelled whlist in reserve at the edge of Ploegstreet Wood.

Ah, if only a picture of H Company at Quetta existed...

Regards

Clive

Clive this is truly great. My Grandfather died a few years before I was born and didnt talk much about his military service. This is helping me piece together what he did and where he was. I have found out more in the last 24 hours than the past 20 years. Do you have a high quality scan of that picture you could email me? I could probably indentify him in the line up.

Kind Regards

Ed

[owen4256]

Ed

No promlem. You need a few more posts to use the PM system . Either add some random comments to some threads or post your email and I will send.

Cheers

Clive

[Ed Woods]

This is a rough draft of where he was from the records linked from this site:-

Joined Essex Regiment sometime in early 1904 - service number 7870

Was in Quetta in 1911 serving with 1st Battalion H Company

If postings oversees were for 8 years he would have been in England and in 2nd Battalion in 1914 who sailed for France in August 1914

Probably wounded 18th November 1914 at Ploegstreet Wood

(Did he spend 1915 recovering from his wounds at home in Southend-on-Sea?)

Joined 1/5th Essex in Feb/March 1916 - service number 4317

Later given Service number 251385 (251316 originally joined on 1st December 1915 - 251407 originally joined on 11th February 1916)

Was mentioned in despatches March 1917 during the first battle of Gaze in Palestine.

[Ed Woods]

Ed

No promlem. You need a few more posts to use the PM system . Either add some random comments to some threads or post your email and I will send.

Cheers

Clive

my email is edwoods100@aol.com - have also sent a pm

Have just had a wonderful email - have sent this as a pm to you

Kind Regards

Ed

[christo6]

Some useful comments here, thanks.

[malsim]

Hi all.

I'm seeking photos of the Essex 1st period 1909-15, particularly E coy. when in Quetta ('11), and of course Y coy. when at Gallipoli ('15)

Also the 2nd when stationed in Dublin.

Thanks to anyone who might have something.

M