Chaplains

[Bob Coulson]

Could some knowledgeable person out there please give some details of how chaplains were allocated at the front.

Did each battalion have their own "man of the cloth" or were they spread out over a wider area i.e brigade?

Would be grateful for any explanations/details.

[Chris_Baker]

The chaplains of the various denominations and the representatives of the great religious bodies played an important part not only in the spiritual but in the material life of the troops. The army chaplains were not only comrades sharing the common dangers, leaders in the outward observances, and comforters in sickness and death, called affectionately by the name of “padres”, but they seemed to be the connecting link with home, with that other life of peace, once known but perhaps never to be recovered. Nothing could be truer than the troops liked having chaplains with them.

At the outbreak of war the Army Chaplains department was small, containing only 117 commissioned chaplains, of whom 89 were Church of England, 11 Presbyterian and 17 Roman Catholic. Many of them were serving in foreign stations. There were, besides, a number of temporary acting chaplains, including Wesleyan, Baptist and Congregationalist, whose names were shown in the Army List. There were also a number of chaplains to the Territorial Force.

On mobilisation there was no difficulty in providing the 65 chaplains required for the British Expeditionary Force. During the early retreat most of these were sent to the field ambulances, as it was considered that with these units they could best be of service.

Besides performing spiritual duties, conducting services and comforting the sick and dying, much welfare work was done by the chaplains. They organised some of the earlier entertainments, and one of them introduced the first cinema; they turned their hands to any service required; and they were a potent influence in the domain of morale, and often a useful link between the man in the ranks and his officer. They were the first to keep records of burials.

By the end of the war, 878 Church of England chaplains and 820 of other denominations had been sent to the theatre of war. Of these, 176 had given their lives.

(Official History of the War, Military Operations, France and Flanders, 1916 Volume 1.)

It should perhaps be added that many Regimental chaplains spent much time in the front line positions with the troops, and on many occasions tended wounded in no man’s land or after an attack had moved the positions forward. Their official place was at Battalion HQ, where they would be in close contact with the officers of the unit. Battalion HQ was usually in a building, dug-out or trench close behind the troops.

[Terry_Reeves]

There were also other men from organisations such as the missionaries from Navvy Missionary Society who, whilst not ordained, served in F&F, and provided spiritual and practical comforts for the troops. Initially they served with the RE Labour Battalions and, on the introduction of the Labour Corps, served with other units. I have the names of some of these men if it is of any interest.

Terry Reeves

[Cliff. Hobson]

The following is an excerpt taken from an account written by a Soldier of the 1st Bn. Sherwood Foresters " I had my tot of rum regular and what life it put into you when served about midnight in the line and beer when out of the line round a coke brazier. Our Officers always used to see that we got a drop of beer and a sing song in a barn or something like. Also the Padres who spoke well, what decent fellows they were as we knelt in the fields or farmyards on a Sunday. They were good fellows many fo them fell in France while telling Tommy a few lines from the Good Book and of Christianity, in my experience some of the best were the Padres"

[michaeldr]

By the end of the war, 878 Church of England chaplains and 820 of other denominations had been sent to the theatre of war. Of these, 176 had given their lives.

Bob,

Can I complete the 1918 figures quoted by Chris, which are correct for the BEF, by giving the totals for all theatres: Home, BEF, MEF, Salonika, Mesopotamia & India, East Africa, Italy and Misc. Areas.

Church of England: 1,985

Presbyterian: 302

Roman Catholic: 651

Wesleyan: 256

United Board: 250

Welsh Calvinist: 10

Jewish: 16

Salvation Army: 5

Total: 3,475

These figures are taken from a full table given in "The Cross on the Sword - Catholic Chaplains in the Forces" by Tom Johnson and James Hagerty, published in 1996 by Geoffrey Chapman.

This book has about 110 pages on RC chaplains in the WWI army and another chapter on the navy. Another suggestion for reading would be "Chaplains in Conflict - The Role of Army Chaplains since 1914" By Stephen H. Louden published 1996 by Avon Books. There must be more reading matter on this subject out there, but that is what I have at the moment.

Regards

Michael D. R.

[Alan Abbott]

Some other sources would be:-

In This Sign Conquer - The Story Of The Army Chaplains by Smyth, Sir John George

London: Mowbray 1968. (Unit History)

God On Our Side - The British Padre In World War I by Moynihan, Michael

London: Leo Cooper 1983.

plus many Autobiographies & Biographies (I have a short list if anyone is interested)

Cheers,

Alan.

[Bernard_Lewis]

A contemporary newspaper account records men of the Swansea Battalion being 'surprised' to see their chaplain in the front line. As he explained 'If the boys can't come to the church, the church will come to the boys'. I think it was a future vicar of Swansea who accompanied the Welsh Division to France, saw/took part in the 1916 attack on Mametz Wood and came out of the war with a M.C.

Bernard Lewis

[Bob Coulson]

Many thanks to all for some very interesting replies and info.

Alan, I would certainly be interested if you could post your list of biographies.

Thanks.

[Rosemary Clarke]

Bob

I have copies of three memoirs or autobiographies by padres/chaplains:-

'"Happy Days" in France and Flanders' by Benedict Williamson

'March, Kind Comrade' by R H J Steuart SJ - attached to a battalion of the Highland Light Infantry

'Pages from a Padre's Diary' by R F Wearmouth

The first two include moving accounts of attending soldiers condemned to death by firing squad.

[Bob Coulson]

Rosemary,

I didn't think there was so much literature out there regarding chaplains.

I will have to put a book list together for future reading.

[egbert]

In the German Army, Chaplains were organized at Divisional Level. In each Division 1 lutheran Chaplain and 1 catholic Priest served. They performed their duties way down to Battalion level: funerals, tending the wounded, -the dying, mess in the field -in the rear area, complementing their colleagues in the field hospitals, which by the way were organized: all field hospitals with even numbers had catholic priests, all field hospitals with odd numbers lutheran Chaplains. Sometimes (i.e. Eastersunday) these divisional Chaplains held 12 mess services per day.

There is a very remarkable book, written by a lutheran Chaplain, available in German: its from 1916 and describes unbelievable details about a Chaplain's life at the front. Very detailed descriptions around Serre, Puisieux, Gommecourt. The cover of the book depicts the destroyed church of Gommecourt: Chaplain A. Kortheuer, "Erlebnisse eines Feldgeistlichen", Herborn 1916

[Annette Burgoyne]

One of the challains who lost their life was

HOWELL, Chaplain 4th Class, THE REV. THOMAS, Army Chaplains' Dept. attd. 6th Bn. King's Shropshire Light Infantry. 1st December 1917. Age 33. Son of Howell and Mary Ann Howell, of Fishguard, Wales. FIFTEEN RAVINE BRITISH CEMETERY, VILLERS-PLOUICH - Nord, IV. C. 16.

I did not know about his death until after my book was published and so he is not recorded in the roll.

[Hedley Malloch]

Our local Catholic University had a seminary; inside the building there is a memorial to all the old boys lost during both world wars. I believe that in the British Army chaplains had no rank, but this was not the case in the French Army. They appear to have had rank both in the Army and in the Church, which makes for a complicated read. I'll take a photo when I get a few minutes and post a copy up. An interesting type of company war memorial.

[michaeldr]

Hedley,

Regarding 'rank' for chaplains in the British Army;

I am open to correction here but I believe that a chaplain enters the service with the rank of Captain and the career structure rises to Chaplain General which ranks as equivalent to a Major General (Director of Service at the Ministry of Defence, Army). As far as I know the WW I situation was very similar with a Chaplain 4th Class having the rank of Captain.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Bob Coulson]

I had wondered about this as all the men I have come across so far seem to have been Chaplain 4th class.

So this means they held the equivalent rank as a captain.

Does anyone know how they compared after that i.e. 3rd/2nd/1st class, what were these equivalent to?

Many thanks for any help.

[michaeldr]

Bob,

Yes there were progressive ranks of 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st class, but what exactly they were equivalent to at that time I cannot say for sure.

I came across one man of the cloth who after having been a 'Captain' at Gallipoli, was a 'Major' on Malta, then went to the WF and ended his war as a 'Colonel' with the army of occupation, however I cannot quote to you chapter and verse on this. His ranks may after all have been what I believe are termed 'local' or indeed some wishful thinking on his part. He struck me as a 'survivor' who seemed to me to spend too much time writing to his boss in Westminster, but perhaps I misjudge him.

Perhaps someone else can clarify this ranks issue for us.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Hedley Malloch]

Michael,

Thanks for that info. Perhaps I am confusing it with the situation in the Navy?

Regards

[Bob Coulson]

Michael,

Yes it would be interesting if someone could come up with a clarification of the equivalent ranks.

[Alan Abbott]

From the Army List 1918:-

Chaplain General, ranking as Major-General

Deputy Chaplain General, ranking as Major-General

Principal Chaplains, ranking as Major-General

Principal Chaplains, ranking as Brigadier-Generals

Chaplains to the Forces (1st Class), ranking as Lieut.-Colonels

Chaplains to the Forces (2nd Class), ranking as Lieut.-Colonels

Chaplains to the Forces (3rd Class), ranking as Majors

Chaplains to the Forces (4th Class), ranking as Captains

Regards,

Alan.

[michaeldr]

Many thanks for clarifying that Alan,

I suspect that by introducing the different 'titles' for the ranks of Chaplains, the Army may have thought that it would thereby make them more accessible to the 'other ranks.' An attempt perhaps to reduce or obscure the gulf between 'them' and 'us' which otherwise existed for the officer and his men.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Terry_Reeves]

Michael

I have always been under the impression that Chaplain's ranks were honourary and, although they could volunteer for military service, they could equally be moved back to a "civilian" ministry if they so wished. The RAChD used to have a museum at Bagshot Park, now I think the home of Prince Edward.

A letter to the following may help elicit more information about Chaplain's:

The Chaplain General

Ministry of Defence

Chaplain's (Army)

Trenchard Lines

Upavon

Wiltshire.

SN9 6BE

Terry Reeves

[Bob Coulson]

Many thanks to all for contributing to this thread.

As usual some really interesting and helpful info.

[michaeldr]

Terry,

Thanks for the useful address.

In his book 'Chaplains in Conflict' Louden (writing in 1996) quotes the Queen's Regulations

"Chaplains should be addressed both officially and otherwise by their ecclesiastical title or official appointment and not by their relative rank or military title."

He goes on however to refer to QR 5.275 and says that chaplains are "entitled to the compliments which are due to an officer of the same relative rank."

I cannot say if these were the rules in 1914-18 however it does strike one that here the army wants it both ways - not an officer but a cleric, but still in the end an officer.

Regarding opting in and out; the priest of the village where my father lives spent many years as an army chaplain and he was very helpful to me when I was looking into Father Finn (k.i.a. 25 April 1915 V Beach, Gallipoli) as they had both attended Ushaw College. I asked him once if it was Father Finn who had inspired him to go into the chaplains' service too. No he said, it was not.

"I was ordered to by my bishop," hinting that a bishop's order was not to be ignored.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Terry_Reeves]

Michael

I'm are sure you are right about the Bishop "posting" his clerics. Nothing to do with this particular subject, but some years ago, whilst posted to a training establishment, I was doing a weekend stint as Orderly Officer. To cater for the needs of the RC population in the camp, a Jesuit priest had been attached in the absence of a uniformed padre. He was a most demanding person and phoned me at 0630 hrs on a Sunday morning complaining the hot water system had broken down and he could not shave for morning mass.

I got the duty chef to boil a bowl of water on the gas stove and presented it to him in the dining room whilst he was having his breakfast. His reply was less than "clerical". The chef grinned widely, I disappeared swiftly.

Perhaps it was the same Bishop that posted him?

Terry Reeves

[michaeldr]

Terry,

Many thanks for that lovely story and my first smile today.

Hot water to shave in eh? I had always thought of the Jesuits as hard men -

the Pope's Paras, so to speak. I wonder if he took vocabulary lessons from Woodbine Willie?

Thanks again

Michael D. R.