‘ANZAC‘ FIRST USED

[ZackNZ]

Hi all

I’m sure this would have been discussed before BUT does anyone please have a specific date for when, where and by whom the term ‘ANZAC’ was used?

Zack

[dinkidie]

Hi Tanner.

Do you mean ANZAC or Anzac?

Both have been discussed almost as much as 'did they land in the wrong place' and the woman sniper.

The AWM and http://www.diggerhistory.info/ have just about got it covered, imho

Dinks

[MartinWills]

Nost of the Diggerhistory pages seem to have expired.

[dinkidie]

Sorry.

Have not kept up to date with Ted's site. Just hope he has not wilted in any way.

This topic seems never to be resolved, but just reviewing it every now & then often uncovers one of those little quirky bits that no one seemed to have bothered about previously.

So to stir the pot... http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/anzac/acronym/doc.asp

Dinks

PS There is also the aspect of when the Cove, and the surrounding battlefield, were officially designated Anzac. And further confusion arises from the intermingling of the troops. An established Australian folk song talks of a soldier [dying] on Suvla Bay [ on the first Anzac Day], and Eric Bogle refers to those poor weary heroes of Suvla when also describing the landing and its environs. Other Anzacs fought at Helles and at Suvla, and non Anzacs fought on the battlefield now known as Anzac

[ZackNZ]

Thanks.........

So no-one really knows for certain?! - Hmmmmmmmmmmm ..............bears further closer examination! I love mysteries!

Zack

[aconnolly]

The term was first used by army clerks in Egypt in early 1915 who made up a stamp "ANZAC" to speed up paperwork. I have a date somewhere, but not readily at hand.

Andrew

[aconnolly]

Also, the geographic position is Anzac, the Corps is ANZAC, the Day is "Anzac Day"

Andrew

[nhclark]

See

http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/anzac/spirit.asp;

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/Anzac/ANZACes.htm

http://www.anzacday.org.au/education/tff/anzac.html and

http://www.dva.gov.au/commemorations/prote.../background.htm

Interestingly, Andrew, there seems to be some differences of opinion on the captialization or otherwise of "Anzac."

In my view you are correct (there we are - trans-Tasman agreement!). ANZAC should only be capitalized when referring to the Corps. In all other cases it should be "Anzac."

Noel

[aconnolly]

Cheers Noel, agreement between cousins! I can't remember quite where I found a very good summary of it all - will keep looking. Irrespective, I guess this debate really does sum up "what's in a name?"

Andrew

[Crunchy]

Zack,

According to Bean, the story is as follows. Early in 1915 Major C. M. Wagstaff, a junior operations officer on Birdwood's HQ, felt the wording of the stencils on the cases containing stationary "A and NZ Army Corps" was cumbrous for using in telegrams and a new telegraphic address was required. He mentioned to the clerks that a convenient word was wanted as a code name for the Corps. The clerks had noticed cases outside their room and a rubber stamp for registering correspondence had the initials A.& N.Z.A.C.. "According to most accounts" Lieutenant A. T. White said "How about ANZAC?" Birdwood approved it. Bean goes on to say "It was some time before the word came into general use, and at the Landing many men in the divisions had not yet heard of it." Bean Vol I. pp 124 - 125.

Cheers

Chris

[ZackNZ]

Thank you everyone for your comments and references - all very helpful.

Cheers

Zack

[Bryn]

Regarding the ANZAC / Anzac issue; The bureaucracy of the Australian War Memorial (AWM) has decided that it will in ALL cases fully-capitalise 'Anzac'. This is even if it was a person's name, and even in a 'quote' when it did not appear that way in the original source. The RSL seems to be adopting the same stance, and there is another body in Australia that previouslly used to email people whose websites contained 'Anzac' (such as myself), and inform them this was incorrect and that the word should always be fully-capitalised.

All these bodies should know better, but unfortunately they seem no longer to have people who know anything about history deciding such policy. I've put together a bit of a spiel on my website, which I hope to refine and consolidate one day soon into an article, at: http://www.anzacs.org/faq.html

[ZackNZ]

Another bit of information:

ANZAC

The origin of the word

(From our own correspondent)

LONDON, September 7

The origin of the word “Anzac” although clearly described by General Sir Ian Hamilton and his memorable Gallipoli dispatch, has already been the subject of at least half a dozen heated controversies. It is almost too elementary to say that Anzac is merely a harmless acrostic composed of the initial letters of the title “Australian New Zealand Army Corps.” It has been stated on more or less reliable authority that there is a Turkish word “Anzak” meaning “only just.” If this is so, it is only just a coincidence and nothing more.

As for who coined or used the word in the first place, there is possibly legitimate ground for controversy. I have just received, however, from Lieutenant Keith M Little (Wellington), who was on a Corps Headquarters at the time, a statement which seems to clear up this side of the matter. Lieutenant Little says:

No accurate account concerning the origination of the word ‘Anzac’ has yet been published, so with the desire of settling once and for all the many doubts surrounding the word, I will describe its discovery and history. Shortly after the first Expeditionary Force representing the Commonwealth of Australia and the Dominion of New Zealand arrived in Egypt (early in December 1914), it was decided to organise the two forces into an army corps, officially designated the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. The officers of the Corps headquarters came from India, and the clerical staff, which I joined on December 26, 1914, comprised representatives from both the colonial forces and one or two from the Imperial Army. Shortly after Corps Headquarters had been established in Cairo, Egypt, the necessity for a telegraphic address arose, and after many abbreviated forms of the official designation of the corps had been submitted the word ‘Anzac’ was discovered. The word was actually discovered by the superintending clerk (an Imperial Army officer of the ASC), and he simply hit on the idea of joining the first letters of the words in the title of the corps. The suggested codeword was thereupon submitted to General Birdwood, who adopted it, and it then came into official use in so far as telegraphic communications were observed. It was not until the corps landed on the Gallipoli Peninsula that it came into prominence, and then only as a result of the decision to christen the spot on which we landed ‘Anzac.’ The word was then generally adopted, and the official operation maps were marked accordingly, and our headquarters were officially styled Anzac headquarters.”

Source: The Otago Daily Times Saturday, November 17, 1917

Does anyone know more? Who was the "superintending clerk (an Imperial Army officer of the ASC)"?

Zack

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The clerks had noticed cases outside their room and a rubber stamp for registering correspondence had the initials A.& N.Z.A.C.

So it originates with whoever labled the crates!

[alliekiwi]

From the New York Times archive online:

(Although that doesn't help name the real chap in question who came up with the idea.)

[Jeff Pickerd]

In an attempt to try and find an official answer to the first use of ANZAC, a search of the war diary of the General Headquarters, M.E.F. for March/April 1915 (War Diaries. Formation Headquarters. AWM Item No.: 1/4/1 Part 1. Title: General Staff, General Headquarters, M.E.F. March - Aplril.) has been interesting, although not giving the answer we require.

Ther is no mention of the Australian & New Zealand Army Corps until 10.15 p.m. 21st March, 1915, with the entry reading: "C.G.S. issued instructions to the Chiel Engineer, Aust. & N.Z. Army Corps." a further entry on this date, given as 2.30 p.m. states: "Lt Gen. Sir W. Birdwood C.B. K.C.S.I. commanding Australian & New Zealand Army Corps."

The progression from this entry begins the process or shortening the title.

From the 28th March until the 2nd April it has become the "A. & N.Z. Corps", with the 2nd April entry being, "A. & N.Z. Army Corps."

On the 4th April the first use of A.& N.Z.A.C. appears.

18th April, 11.15 p.m. the first use of ANZAC appears at this entry, although on the 22nd April, 6.50 p.m. it is back to A.& N.Z. A.C. and remains until 4,30 p.m. 25th April.

25th April, 10.10 p.m. ANZAC is firmly established.

The post by Crunchy on the 19th April would seem to give the history of how the abbreviation came into being, but the above would indicate the progression of its use within headquarters documentation.

Jeff

[digzkatz]

Have recently seen a documentary on Dardanelles.

There is a photo in the training camp in Egypt, of a tent with ANZAC written diagonally on it. Apparently (in usual military fashion) it was the clerks who abbreviated it to expedite mail, messages, orders etc.

It then became the official designation some time later.

Cheers,

Blair

[Bryn]

Claim:

Invented Code Word 'Anzac'

A claim - one that is supported in the Official History of the A.I.F. - that he coined the word "Anzac" as a telegraphic address is made by Major A. T. White, late R.A.S.C., of "Deepdene." 31 Alleyn Park, Southall, Middlesex (Eng.), in a letter in the journal of the R.A.S.C.

Major White, then a lieutenant, was a clerk on the staff of General Birdwood's headquarters in Egypt in 1915, and he sets out his case as follows.

"I did invent the name 'Anzac' for a telegraphic address. and it was at once accepted by the then Major Wagstaff, Brig.-General Carruthers, Lieut.-Colonel W. B. Lesslie, and Colonel H. O. Knox (late A.S.C.) as "jolly good."

"It was duly registered at the Cairo Post Office, and later (February, 1915), appeared in the Cairo (or Egypt) General Orders as an authorised address.

"From that it easily became identified with correspondence, such as 'Headquarters, Anzac,' instead of the full description of Australian and New Zealand Army Corps; then from that to painting [sic] on all stationery and other boxes, and finally General Birdwood immortalised the name by christening the cove (on Gallipoli) at Which we landed on April 25, 1915, as 'Anzac Cove.'

"I knew Dr. Bean, the Australian war correspondent, and subsequently Editor of the Australian Official War History. and he was, at the time of coining the word, aware of the actual facts as now stated.

"I am still well known to many now serving in the R.A.S.C., as I finished my last few years by seven years as assistant to the A.D.M.T, Woolwich Arsenal, and one and a half years as supervising officer of Q.M.G.5 and A.G.8 (under Major-General Gibb), retiring as major in September, 1930."

Reveille. 'Invented Code Word "Anzac"', in Reveille 1 Jul 1934 p3.

And counter-claim:

Little, K. M. 'Who Coined Anzac? A Rejoinder', in Reveille 1 Feb 1936 p3.