Steve121 Posted 13 April , 2009 Share Posted 13 April , 2009 I was in Shorncliffe cemetery this morning taking a few pictures of Royal Canadian graves for 'regimentalrogue', when I came upon a grave with a plaque placed in front of the headstone The grave was in the name of Sapper W H Kimberley of the Royal Engineers. The plaque was from Coventry City FC. I know nothing about football and in fact have no interest at all in the game, but this caught my eye. Do any members know anything about this man and his sporting history? I took a few pics of the grave and plaque and have attached 2 here. Thanks in advance for any info. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Steve, Thank you for posting the photos. I am pretty sure that this is not the grave of the Walter Kimberley who played for Villa, Walsall and Coventry. The footballer was a reservist (Coldstream Guards) and was captured early on in the war. I believe that he then became seriously ill in a POW camp , and was allowed to return to the UK in 1916. Sadly, he did not recover and he died in either in 1917 or 1918. I have had a quick look at CWGC and he does not seem to be listed. I think that we could be looking at a possible non-comm here. Will investigate further tonight. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPAE Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 AGWR, There was a large Military Hospital[Queen Alexandria?] at Shorncliffe Barracks during the 60's and it was a well established building. Could this have been where Walter died? Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Here's the SDGW entry for the chap with the headstone - However there are also 20+ pages (over 3 different records) for Walter Kimberley on Ancestry which shows he was a mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 AGWR and Steve, You have got yourselves a non-comm here !!! well done. Walter Kimberley Coldstream Guards 5465 died June qtr of 1917 age 32 registered in Aston Warwickshire. Repatriated POW 8-8-16 discharged as unfit 1-9-16 served for 12 years 181 days lost his voice permanently and suffered from pulmonary T B as a result of being a POW. His MIC is on Ancestry and his Pension Records have survived also on Ancestry, its a knocking certainty that he will be accepted by the CWGC in my opinion. Best of luck. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Phil, Quite possibly. I really don't know. I have dug out these snippets from a sports newspaper. These reports would appear to confirm that Walter Henry Kimberley (date of death: 17/02/17) in Shorncliffe cemetery is not the footballer: 'Kimberley, the Aston Villa back, who was captured by the Germans early in the war, has shared the usual fate of those who come under the “cape” of the Huns. He has been starved and broken in health. He was one of the prisoners recently exchanged, but he has come back to find everything looking at its blackest. More need not now be said. A match for his benefit has been arranged by Mr. J. H. Webster, of the Birmingham Works Association, between the Ordnance Accessories Co. and the General Electric Companies, and some notable players will participate in the game, which takes place at Villa Park on Easter Tuesday' (02/04/17) 'No one was so optimistic as to to expect that Walter Kimberley, for five years with Aston Villa, and then with Coventry City and Walsall, would recover from his experiences in Germany. A corporal in the Coldstreams he was taken prisoner early in the war, and was kept at Doelberitz. Among the exchanged prisoners he returned to England a physical wreck. A versatile sportsman, who at his best stood 5ft. 9.1/2 in., and weighed 11st. 7lb. He was expected to make a very fine back, but he never quite realised anticipations. Still, he was both a footballer and cricketer of no mean abilities.' (1/05/17) Looking at the MICs, I see that there is a Walter Kimberley, Coldstream Guards 5465. This man's record is on Ancestry. He was indeed a POW, repatriated 16/08/16 and was discharged as 'no longer physically fit for war service' on 1/09/16. (see image). A comment, dated 18/09/19, on the MIC refers to the 'late L/Cpl W. Kimberley'. The most likely match for a death is this man: KIMBERLEY Walter 32 - Abt 1885 Aston.6d 528 2 1917 I will order the death certificate to confim whether it is the same man. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Ralph, I didn't see your post! I started typing a reply (couldn't wait until tonight) and then had to take a phone call. I agree that it looks like we have a non-comm here. It should just be a case of confirming that William Kimberley 5465 and the man whose death is registered in Q2 of 1917 in Aston are one and the same. It will be interesting to see whether the death certificate mentions his war service. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Then its a case of finding his final resting place via Church/Registrars records. All the best. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Then its a case of finding his final resting place via Church/Registrars records. All the best. Ralph. Ralph, Any ideas about how best to do this? Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Firstly I would try the Registry Office Holliday Wharf,Holliday Street, Birmingham B1 1TJ tel:- 01216751000 email address register_office@birmingham.gov.uk If you get hold of his death cert it may well give a clue as to where he was laid to rest. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 There is a Birmingham History Forum, found by Googling just that, you may have to join and they may be able to help, looking through obituary notices etc. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Ralph, Many thanks for the advice. I will follow up those leads. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 14 April , 2009 Share Posted 14 April , 2009 Just in case it's previously been picked up by the IFTC team, you may want to contact John Hartley et al to see if it's a known case to them. If not, you'll get the kudos for the "find" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve121 Posted 15 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2009 Thanks for all replies, you guys a font of knowledge. The way I read it (please correct me if I'm wrong) is ... the man in the grave was not the football player that the plaque was meant for and it should be on the grave of another Walter Kimberley a Coldstream Guard. But, the other man has no known grave and does not appear of any CWGC records. I'm also a bit confused here over the words 'non comm' can somebody tell me what it means? It seems to me that somebody from Coventry City FC has done to a lot of searching for the wrong man and put a plaque on the grave they think is the right one for the footballer. I will watch any replies with interest and if I can assist in anyway of helping the plaque find it's way to a proper location on the correct Walter Kimberley's grave I will. Thankyou all for taking so much time in this. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 15 April , 2009 Share Posted 15 April , 2009 A "Non-comm" is a non-commemorated man or woman on the Commonwealth War Graves Commissions Roll of Honour. A soldier discharged from the army, who later died from the effects of his participation in the war should be commemorated (as long as he died before the cut-off date of 31-8-1921). There are quite a number who aren't, a lot of whom died from their wounds after their formal discharge from the Army. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 15 April , 2009 Share Posted 15 April , 2009 Steve, It certainly looks like the plaque is on the wrong grave. I will order his death certificate to double-check. As Ralph has said, it would seem that Walter Kimberley (Coldstream Guards) should be commemorated by the CWGC. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 sadly the coldstream own records for ww1 "died" are in 2 parts and part 2 is missing - late entries are in part 2 for the letter "K" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevew Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 It seems to me that somebody from Coventry City FC has done to a lot of searching for the wrong man and put a plaque on the grave they think is the right one for the footballer. Steve Maybe someone should tell CCFC they have commemerated the wrong man - although that is probably easier said than done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moston Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 Maybe someone should tell CCFC they have commemerated the wrong man - although that is probably easier said than done As a long suffering fan of the far from illustrious Coventry City - I shall put the wheels in motion by mentioning this on a popular fans website...someone may know who placed this plaque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 The death cert may not give clues to a burial place. I have found a local paper's death announcements column is better, a few days after the date of death. The history forum should be able to help with this. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 Thanks for everyone's comments/ suggestions. I will post details of the death certificate in due course. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan darby Posted 18 April , 2009 Share Posted 18 April , 2009 photo of lcpl kimberley from the picture world newspaper dated 5th nov 1914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan darby Posted 18 April , 2009 Share Posted 18 April , 2009 article from the aston news, Lcpl Kimberley is buried at Witton Cemetery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 19 April , 2009 Share Posted 19 April , 2009 Well done Kevan, another step along the way in getting this man commemorated. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 19 April , 2009 Share Posted 19 April , 2009 Kevan, Many thanks for posting this information. It is fantastic to see a picture of him. Hopefully, it should not be too difficult to find the exact spot where he is buried: http://www.wittonfriends.org.uk/ Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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