Edward John Coombs 14th Battery RFA (Dorset?)

[yeti]

I am a first timer with this forum and cannot believe the depth of knowledge there is. I have recently been given several WW1 documents relating to by grandfather who died in 1973. He was a blacksmith prior to joining the army. I am interested to see what I can find out about his service in the Great War as he would never speak to the family about it. I have only recently started looking so I apologise if my questions seem obvious. I have looked at several other websites including the Long long Trail but have not managed to find anything.

Is there anyone that can give me some advice on where to start researching his history as there seems to be a huge number of potential sources of info... ?

I have the following info/documents:

Edward John COOMBS Born 14/11/1886 in Milborn Port, Dorset

09/09/1904 Joined Dorset Regiment at Gillingham aged 18yrs - says on attestation that this was for 3 yrs in army and 9yrs in reserve.

08/04/1908 Third class certificate of education issued to Bombardier 35033 driver Edward John Coombs 14th Battery RFA (is this regular or reserve army?)

18/09/1908 Second class certifiate of education 14th Battery RFA

30/04/1912 Cooking certificate for 35033 Coombs 14th Battery RFA issued by Army Cookery School for India

28/03/1912 Equitation Certificate for duties as Battery Rough Rider -- Certificate signed on 02/04/1913 at Lucknow by commanding officer 9th Brigade RFA.

I have his pay book from Feb 1917 to Jan 1918 showing the place names as:

Feb to June 1917 FAO (?)

17/06/1917 Bombay

June /July/August 1917 Agra Fort

Oct 1917 to Jan 1918 Mhow

There is also an army form Z.18 showing his employment during the war.. This document gives his reimental number as 147902 RGA 78 COY. Why has this apparantly changed?

In addition there is a postcard Form W5132 stating he was awarded the 1914 star, issued to him as 35033 in the RFA.

Form Z 11 (protection certicate) dated 27/04/1920 giving his regtl nmber as 147902 RGA 78 coy. Medical category B1 . Theatre of war Singapore. Is this when he left the army ?

He would have been 28 yrs old at the start of the war.. was this older than most soldiers?.. if so would it have influenced the role he had?

I would be really grateful if anyone can suggest where to start looking for fiurther info. What/where is he likely to have been or doing between 1904 when he joined and the start of WW1. I guess in India somewhere but in what role?

I have lovely group photograph of him with other soldiers (unknown place or location) but I don't seem able to attach to this post.

Do I have enough information to realistically make any progress to find out what he was doing during the Great War?

Any help/guidance or advice on where to start would be really appreciated.

I have seen several websites where you can pay for further military info and records.. are these worth doing , if so which ones?

Thanks again for any help.

Dave

[Guest]

Hi Dave.

I think you're very lucky and have a lot more than most ever get. I can't help much but if you scroll down to the

" Research Services " section you will find people to help. I don't think am allowed to recommend anyone in particular, but I have used their services and found them worth every penny.

Am sure there will be others come along and offer some good free advice too.

Cheers Mike.

[yeti]

Thanks Mike, Having browsed through this forum it is quite clear that there are a lot of experts who may be able to point me in the right direction.... seems that I may well have taken on a lot of work though!

I have attached the photograph I have ... unknown date or location of course but I was hoping that someone may be able to give me some information from the uniforms etc. My grandfather is sitting on the right of the front row holding something.

Dave

[MelPack]

Dave

Welcome to the Board.

I will start the ball rolling with the MIC that confirms entitlement to the Mons Star and appears to have the date of transfer from the RFA to the RGA:

[MelPack]

Dave

Service was with the Meerut Division:

7th (Meerut) Division

British Units Only

A Regular Division of the Indian Army. Arrived in France in October 1914. Served in France and Flanders until December 1915 when the Division went to Mesopotamia here the Division remained until December 1917 when it went to Egypt. The Division served in Egypt and then Palestine until the Armistice (31 October 1918). When the Division went overseas its garrison duties were taken over by the 7th Meerut divisional area.

Battles and Engagements

France and Flanders

Battle of La Bassee. 10 Oct-2 Nov 1914.

Defence of Festubert. 23-24 Nov 1914.

Defence of Givenchy. 20-21 Dec 1914.

Battle of Neuve Chappelle. 10-13 Mar 1915.

Battle of Aubers. 9 May 1915, including the attack on Fromelles and the attack at Rue du Bois.

Battle of Festubert. 15-25 May 1915.

Battle of Loos. 25 Sep-8 Oct 1915.

Action of Pietre. 25 Sep 1915.

Mesopotamia

Action of Shaikh Saad. 6-8 Jan 1916.

Action of the Wadi. 13 Jan 1916.

First action on the Hanna. 21 Jan 1916.

Attack on the Dujaila Redoubt. 8 Mar 1916.

First attack on Sannaiyat. 6 Apr 1916.

Second attack on Sannaiyat. 9 Apr 1916.

Third attack on Sannaiyat. 22 Apr 1916.

Capture of Sannaiyat. 17-24 Feb 1917.

Operations on the Tigris right bank. 9-10 Mar 1917.

Occupation of Baghdad. 11 Mar 1917.

Actions of Mushahida. 14 Mar 1917.

Action of Istabulat. 21-22 Apr 1917.

Occupation of Samarra. 24 Apr 1917.

Palestine

Battle of Sharon. 19-23 Sep 1918.

http://www.ordersofbattle.darkscape.net/si...s/7_ind_div.htm

Regards

Mel

[MelPack]

Dave

When he transferred to the RGA as a BQMS on 17/2/17, he was originally with the No. 74 Company based atFort Agra and at some point was transferred to No. 78 Company based at the Straits Settlements, Singapore where he completed his military service.

Mel

[MelPack]

Dave

Just taking an overview of the records, your man enlisted as a regular for the short term service of 3 years with the Colours and 9 years with the Reserves.

He obviously changed the terms of service - possibly twice to 7 years and then the full 12 years with the Colours. The 1913 cerification confirms that he was with the 9th Brigade (19, 20, 28 Batteries) and this was likely the Brigade that he entered the theatre of war with. The 4th and 9th Brigades were the Divisional Artillery of the Meerut Division.

He obviously was promoted in the RFA before becoming a BQMS with the RGA. Does the 1917 paybook mention a rank for the RGA?

There is the possibility that he suffered either wounds or sickness (more likely the latter) in Mesopotamia in 1916 that may have resulted in his return to India and subsequent transfer to the RGA.

I would place the photograph in F&F during 1914-15 - possibly the arrival in France - note the litle boy and the absence of puttees - the old hands also look well tanned.

Regards

Mel

[battiscombe]

I wonder whether the photo is prewar in barracks (and these look like proper barracks rather than billets/camp in France) although am not sure what the interior arrangments of Indian barracks looked like .. and Coombs looks pretty young in this picture .. not much more than 20 perhaps?? as the 4th Brigade landed in Marseille (I think) I am not sure how this could be in a UK barracks during the war..

As 4th Brigade seems to have been in India for a long time prewar (many years at Jhansi, at Secunderabad by 1914), might this be his initial training in UK before being posted to India ?? - I believe his initial training would have been at a Depot in England .. so that would be pre-1908??? could that be possible? I am also not sure this uniform would be worn in India (even in winter??) .. but I may be quite wrong on that .. a uniform expert might be able to confirm or otherwise ..

nice photo anyway

David

is a draft

Dave

Just taking an overview of the records, your man enlisted as a regular for the short term service of 3 years with the Colours and 9 years with the Reserves.

He obviously changed the terms of service - possibly twice to 7 years and then the full 12 years with the Colours. The 1913 cerification confirms that he was with the 9th Brigade and this was likely the Brigade that he entered the theatre of war with. The 4th and 9th Brigades were the Divisional Artillery of the Meerut Division.

He obviously was promoted in the RFA before becoming a BQMS with the RGA. Does the 1917 paybook mention a rank for the RGA?

There is the possibility that he suffered either wounds or sickness (more likely the latter) in Mesopotamia in 1916 that may have resulted in his return to India and subsequent transfer to the RGA.

I would place the photograph in F&F during 1914-15 - possibly the arrival in France - note the litle boy and the absence of puttees - the old hands also look well tanned.

Regards

Mel

[yeti]

Mel/Dave Thanks for taking the time for such detailed replies. I was amazed what information seems to be available and I am looking forward to finding out more. I already now know more information from one posting on the forum than my family ever knew and this has given me some really good information to research.

If a photograph helps to identify unit/ranks etc I have attached one for you to look at. I also have a copy of the pay book which I will attach as well.

As a battery rough rider what was his actual role ? He was a blacksmith prior to joining and I have a certificate showing that he completed an army shoeing smiths course and equitation course as well, so I guess his practical skills were put to good use. Would most of his duties in the RFA and RGA be likely to be linked with horses? One of the early documents desrcibe him as driver 30533 14th Battery RFA.. what does the 'driver' refer to .. is this likely to be the large guns pulled by horses?

Dave

[yeti]

This is the front pages of the pay book.. I was interested to see the much larger payment on 22/06/1917.. any idea why the pay was so much more?

Dave

[battiscombe]

Thats an excellent portrait of him.

As for horse links - the artillery were horsedrawn so each battery had gun crews supported by 'drivers' who moved them - so artillerymen tended to be 'gunners' or 'drivers' and each unit had its own blacksmith (farrier), wheelwrights (wheeler) and saddlers etc -- it was horse oriented world .. and the men were often devoted to the horses .. some war diaries of units closed the war mentioning that they still had some horses which had gone to France with them in 1914 .. or even some that had been in South Africa with them before the war !

I am not sure what the 'rough rider' did - perhaps this related to independant horsemanship skills (as men were needed to look for positions - carrying messages etc), as distinct from being part of a team of horses pulling the guns and limbers and ammunition carts etc.. which would require very different training .. I attach a copy of a wellknown picture of a gun crew in Aug 1914 heading for the front .. with 3 drivers riding horses pulling the gun.. of the type which 14th Bty would have been using ..

I imagine RGA work in india was more static than working with RFA Battery

I am afraid I dont know how pay scales worked - there are extra allowances for many things so he may have just moved onto higher pay scales

Somewhere in his papers there should be an indication of where he transferred to the artillery - it is not uncommon to find men who originally signed up to an infantry unit and soon after transferred to the artillery .. I have seen several cases in service records .. not sure why mind you .. but as far as I can see there are no copies of his service records/pension record surviving in the (Ancestry) archives. His service record would have had a page(s) which noted each major posting and promotion, details of education certificates etc .. and service overseas etc (it would give a date when he went to India, for example..)

david

[MelPack]

Dave

The photo is as a BQMS and post war - so shortly before his discharge in Singapore. I would suggest that you post the two photographs in the uniforms section on another thread to secure the comments of the uniform buffs.

The larger payment is probably the bounty for extending his service by a further period. He would have been time expired in 1916 but his terms of service would have been extended automatically by a further year under the Army Act because of the war. A bounty was paid to the time expired when they extended their term.

Regards

Mel

[MelPack]

Plenty of information and further links here on drivers:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...1&hl=driver

Regards

Mel

[yeti]

One of the certificates shows that he was qualified as a battery range finder so that is likely to be linked with the 'rough rider' position.. after leaving the army he lived at a wheelwrights in Surrey so he clearly stayed working with horses.

Thanks to all of you this is really interesting.

Dave

Mel,

Thanks.... I will post the pictures in the uniform section.

Dave

[MelPack]

Dave

In the context of a rough rider in the RFA, your man was certified as competent to train other drivers and to break in and train horses for the teams. Range finding was an entirely different skill but his certification in this does suggest that he was an allround artillery man and helps explain his promotion to BQMS.

Regards

Mel

[yeti]

Thanks David,

I have several certificates that help with dates..... one for April 1912 shows he was in Poona, India and one for March 1913 in Lucknow ..I now know from the forum that he went to France in October 1914 I would like to try and find out what his role was in India before the war as well.. are there likely to be forum members who could help with pre war duties of the RFA or this outside the scope of the forum? This starting to build a timeline nicely.. Thanks for all your help with this.

Dave

Thanks Mel,

I have posted the photos on the uniform section and will see if they can add anything.

Dave

[MelPack]

Dave

Just another snippet of information, RFA 34924 attested on 6 July 1904 and 35604 on 12 July 1904. Bearing in mind that the RFA number series would be broadly sequential at this stage then the same does suggest that your man spent very little time in the infantry before transfer to the RFA.

Regards

Mel

[yeti]

Thanks Mel.. again I apologise for asking what proabably seems a stupid question to you.. what is the significance of the transfer to the RFA? would it have been common to swap units based on skills.. or would they have changed or swapped units after basic training..I say this because he joined the Dorset regiment in September 1904 and I thought this was part of the RFA anyway? Sorry.. I will get there eventually! I have read some books on this but it gets rether confusing.

Additionally as he joined the Dorset Regiment in 1904 - would his basic training have been in Dorset or were there other central training locations/camps for several regiments around 1904 ? Did this then change on the build up to and after 1914?

Thanks

Dave

[yeti]

Thanks Mel, It makes a little more sense to me now. I posted the last on the wrong thread.

I hope this is the book you need.. I see that his regimental number has been altered in red pen for some reason?

Dave

[MelPack]

Dave

Thanks for posting the image. In my view, the fact that the Dorsets' number was simply struck through and the RFA service number entered seems to confirm that he was transferred to the Artillery almost imediately (this is supported by the date of attestation and the RFA service number).

I would infer that he was persuaded to transfer from his County regiment to the Artillery because his skills as a blacksmith were of far greater use - he could have become a shoeing smith but evidently chose not to.

Regards

Mel

[yeti]

Mel,

Thanks for your help... I am now trying to piece together a time line of what I have so far for him.... you have already been really helpful.. anymore gems keep them coming!

Dave