Passchendaele 2008

[britman]

Just wondering if any of our Canadian friends has seen this yet. And what their thoughts are on the movie.

Link to IMDB IMDB Passchendaele

[Kutenay]

I replied to another query concerning this when I first found this excellent forum. I was raised by men who fought there and in other WWI and WWII battles and my maternal grandfather commanded a platoon there, was so severely wounded that he died young and this after being wounded at Courcelette.

I hoped for over 30 years that someone would make a good movie about Passchendaele and was super eager to see this, so, my wife and I went the first week it opened in Vancouver.

This is among the worst movies I have ever seen, I was just sickened and outraged and my feelings are common among friends whose ancestors also fought there. The film is SO unrealistic about 1917 Canada and the portrayal of a British officer as a lout, bully and coward is simply unjust, wrong and highly offensive to anyone who KNOWS anything about Passchendaele.

The battle scenes WERE damm good and that was all that was worth watching in this travesty. The final scene with Paul Gross carrying his wounded, crucified comrade on a rough cross while both German and Canadian troops looked on is simply egomaniacal pornography and totally absurd. Guess you might think I don't care for this flick, eh?

[alex falbo]

Thats too bad. I had hope for this piece. To concour, all I've heard from pals on here is the same. The opening sequence and the subsequent battle scenes are the only merits this forgettable fargo has. Such a pity. Oh well. It seems that no one is able to make a decent WWI film.

[Copper6197]

Hi all;

It has been some 2 months since I saw this movie, and upon reflection, I must agree that it was not as realistic as one might want about the home front in Calgary. However, do remember that this motion picture is only an interpretation of events and so the writer, Mr Gross himself, felt he could take some licence with facts. Not to poke our Brit comrades too much, but the British officer character just might be more accurate than we want to believe. I'm sure other movies and other actors have portrayed officers of all sides in WWI similarly.

George

[Kutenay]

That is one of the most enduring and false myths of the Great War, that British officers were callous, cowardly, pompous and incompetent types, such as the major portrayed in Gross's pathetic and self-aggrandizing film. Nothing could be further from the factual truth of the matter and the British officers, taken as a group, in that horrific conflict, were arguably the bravest men who have ever fought anywhere.

Lt us NOT forget, that it was BRITISH officers, largely, who commanded Canadian battalions from their formation here in the Dominion until they were systematically slaughtered in the first two years of our participation. Major-General Louis Lipsett, Brigadiers like Farmar and now forgotten majors, like Percy Rigby of the 54th-Kootenay Battalion, K.I.A. at Festubert, IIRC, were the backbone of the foundation of the Canadian Corps and WE could not have done it without them.

I rather doubt that the British officers who oversaw the building of "the Empire" were anything like the cruel, ignorant and pathetic caricature presented by Gross; many of these people happened to be my direct ancestors here in Canada and they certainly were not cowards...as our victories over the French and repeated Yankee invasions seems to make obvious.

No, British officers could be arrogant, condescending and sometimes lacked appreciation of Canadian values, but, THAT portrayal was just BS, like the entire movie.

[John Gilinsky]

Don't condemn the entire movie: there are some good home front scenes even if they are NOT entirely realistic such as the recruiting office scenes including the one in the tent. The script is obviously slanted towards melodramatic effect rather than historical accuracy I agree. You also need to compare Gross's opus with PREVIOUS Canadian attempts to portray through historical fiction via film(sigh). You might be accused of typical self-flagelating Canadianism: our cultural products are never good of course!

John

Toronto

[Kutenay]

Don't be absurd, I used to own and operate my own independent bookstore and am quite conversant with Canadian cultural productions, the Gordon Pinsent portrayal of my great-grandmother's first cousin, the redoubtable and rather eccentric Sir Sam, being one case in point.

Canada has produced an amazing body of literature, some of our more recent novels, such as " Fall On Your Knees", by A.M. MacDonald, rather relevant here, are "worldclass" by ANY evaluation. Our painting is sought after by international collectors and our heritage is a highly erudite and even scholastic one in many respects.

BUT, this movie is a disgrace and I am saddened by it's coming use as a "teaching tool" in our already intellectually barren public schools. Passchendaele is FAR TOO important in Canadian development to be a subject for a cheap melodrama like this movie. Anyway, that is my opinion and all I have to say on the topic.

[alex falbo]

Don't be too saddened. They can still do an accurate piece on Vimy Ridge!!

[auchonvillerssomme]

Its a film, does anyone really expect it to be a factual account of course not, to entertain we have to have sex, death, a baddie and a goody. Surely nothing can beat Legends of the Fall when it comes to crass b*ll*x. There is something in the colonial psyche that refuses to acknowledge the role of the British in their roots, was the British Officer a Scot, I doubt it very much. I think one of the most telling statements on this thread is the statement 'Canada has produced an amazing body of literature, some of our more recent novels....' Fall On Your Knees is a novel it is a story, a realistic depiction of childhood and growing up...not in a million years, characters out of context. Neither a film or a novel can bring to life our history.

Mick

"To be born English is to win first prize in the lottery of life"

[Kutenay]

There is something in the colonial psyche that refuses to acknowledge the role of the British in their roots, was the British Officer a Scot, I doubt it very much. I think one of the most telling statements on this thread is the statement 'Canada has produced an amazing body of literature, some of our more recent novels....' Fall On Your Knees is a novel it is a story, a realistic depiction of childhood and growing up...not in a million years, characters out of context. Neither a film or a novel can bring to life our history.

Mick

I find your comments here a bit confusing, would you kindly clarify your meaning for me?

[Copper6197]

In reply:

This is a movie, and a movie only. Kutenay, you said it yourself, the Bristish officer is a caricature only. I certainly have no quarrel with the bravery of British officers in any conflict, my own grandfather was a 2nd Lt. in WWI. The movie was well advertised here in Canada as a love story and it's connection with Passchendaele was its title (obiviously) and it's date of release in Canada (Remembrance Week)

I refer back to my first post in that authors are entitled, they feel, to take liberties with facts.

The battle scenes were realistic though....

George

[Canadawwi]

I would put the quality of the movie into context with the quality of movies overall today. We are looking at an industry where they play to those most likely to go into the theatres - the level of 13 year old boys. What makes money now? Harry Potter, action films, etc. Follow the money and then wonder who will invest in a Canadian war film. Even if the film was much much better and met every standard, I still doubt it would have made money - simply because the subject matter is not of interest to the average movie goer. I agree that if it was a better world, films should be made with quality and not profits in mind. It hasn't happened that way for a long time now.

We are in a time when meaningless movies about a chihuahua make the biggest box office - and yes, I checked the Canadian box office figures as well as the American regarding what is popular.

There will always be something that could have been improved upon. I agree that the romance aspect is not necessary - but that's what gets investment dollars for movies. The female demographic is important to the movie industry, and as stupid and ridiculous as films such as Mamma Mia and Sex and the City are, that is what sells, and that is where the best talents will go. Follow the money.

I am simply happy that a movie about World War One was even made in Canada. When was the last time this happened? If it was such a simple thing to pull off a movie both authentic in every aspect and compelling to watch, and profitable, then there would be lots of people who would want to try producing a Canadian war film.

Even great classic films have errors that one could argue about endlessly. Valkyrie, Tom Cruise's latest film, implies that the hero wanted to kill Hitler because he was concerned with the death camps. Historians looking at the film say that Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg was only concerned that Germany was losing the war. This movie probably hired 10 times as many historical advisers and a lot more funding that went into Passchendaele. People are also laughing about Cruise's accent (or lack of), and other details. Again, this was a well funded and promoted film.

If this movie makes even one young Canadian take an interest in the war - then it is worth it to me.

If people are going to bash that movie, then why would anyone in the future even want to try to top it? The Canadian film industry is already struggling and overshadowed by the American film industry. Do you recall a Canadian blockbuster?

I admire Paul Gross for taking this project on. May it be the start of more films in this genre.

[Copper6197]

Well said, Canadawwi.

I think that this is the end of this thread.

George

[Kutenay]

Passchendaele has had an enormous impact upon my life and that of my family and thus is of more than academic interest to me. So, I had hoped for something far more realistic in respect of the Canada of that time, however, I have made my opinion clear and shall not comment further.

In 2006, I saw a British film about "The Somme" and THAT impressed me very much and I would like to see it again. The British are simply masterful when it comes to drama, but, I think that we Canadians are rapidly becoming their equal in some other forms of literature. So, I simply used an example thereof to disagree with Mr. Gilinsky's earlier post and will not address the inter-relation between "history" and cultural artifacts such as novels.

I also would very much like to see more Canadian-made films about WWI and WWII, but, am not very optimistic in this regard. A couple of friends of mine did a brilliant script some 30 years ago, concerning a historically signifigant murder, trial and hanging in the Kootenays.....needless to say, there was NO Canada Council funding for this, while American "draft dodgers" had no problem obtaining it for their "poetry".....Canada, eh?

[stoj22]

As has been stated ther film is really a love story with a WW1 theme. Having said that I quite enjoyed it and it was worth watching just for the battle scenes at the end. The British officer is a pompous git but I don't think the movie gave the impression that all British officers were like that. The Germans were portrayed in quite a good light too considering the nature of the film.

Well Done Canada,

Steve.

[Desmond7]

Thanks to a kind member of forum, I had a chance to watch this movie today. I was on sofa with snug rug and clutching hot water bottle. Yes, I've had flu. Not the man type, the real deal.

Kutenay, in my opinion, is being much too generous to this knee trembling, icon-flaunting, myth-peddling, poorly written, totally unbelievable waste of time.

Sorry, not entirely a waste of time, (some of) the battle scenes at the end were powerful. But the 'Passion' piece at the end was excruciating. How any arts body can justify the money spent on filming such a pitiful and willingly pitiful screenplay is beyond my ken.

I wrote a 'legpulling' blognovel some time ago on this forum. I am totally confident that my blognovel, transferred to the silver screen, would be oscar winning material in comparison to this tripe. In fact, I'm off to submit it to the poor deluded fools who funded this one.

Des - angered at seeing funds and opportunity wasted.

[Jim Clay]

For goodness' sake, Des, you may be poorly and all that - and hope you're soon back to full fighting fitness - but that really doesn't excuse such a namby-pamby, shilly-shallying, non-committal, fence-sitting review. Get a grip man and tell us what you really, really thought of it, eh?

and then again:

[Kutenay]

Thank God, that in this PC warped world, where lies, distortions and cheap "historical" revisionism are acceptable and pride in one's founding culture, here in Canada, at least, is SO "uncool", there are still men who will speak out like "Des" !!!!!

"Up, guards and at 'em!"

[Canadawwi]

Kutenay: you probably read my last post #12. I thought I was fair and balanced, but I guess not.

I don't get the last comment. Are you trying to say that my comments somehow indicate that I have no pride in my "founding culture"? If I had criticized the movie I would somehow be a better and prouder Canadian? That is illogical. What do you know of me and what I contribute regarding Canada and World War One?

You also said that you and your family had a lot invested in Passchendaele and the first World War and hence your comments represent more than an "academic" interest. Most of us who are part of this forum, and interested in the subject, have the same interest and passionate connection to this war. I lost 4 relatives in that war, another in the Second World War, and had about 20 extended family members serving. My grandfather was there at Passchendaele. When a Passchendaele book was coming out a year ago (in Belgium), I spent hours combing through my records to find photos and bios to ensure that the Canadians were represented in this book.

Just as you do, I also have every reason to want the movie to be accurate. So it wasn't. Why such venom? Other recent World War One films were also bad - so it clearly isn't such an easy thing to pull off. Remember the one a year or more ago, a European production about the Christmas Truce? It had a lot of problems as well, least of which a female opera star sleeping overnight in the trenches with her lover? How realistic was that?

I in no way said the movie was great or a classic. I like to pick movies apart, and I could do so now. I just said that you have to look at in in the context of movies in general today which are usually poor.

I am not politically correct, and if anything I am politically incorrect regarding current Canadian politics. However, I will not post my politically incorrect comments here or I would be banned. I think the real tragedy in Canada is what is happening now and what will happen within 25 years, and not the fact that the Passchendaele movie wasn't very good.

Lots of scripts that are terrible are out there today. Passchendaele can't be much worse than recent hits and all the other crap out there that makes tons of money and gets high attendance. And, what about more documentaries on TV - it isn't happening because most people want shows about weight loss or some starlet's reality TV.

[Kutenay]

If, you re-read my posts that you seem to refer to, you might see that you have misquoted me and thus your conclusions are not correct. I simply stated that Passchendaele had a huge impact on MY life and did not make any comments about other people's experience as you suggest I did, O.K.?

I certainly do NOT claim any special status concerning this or any aspect of my family's service in either war or since they first landed here in Canada, I simply tried to make it clear how important this has been in my life and nothing else.

My comment concerning "Des" was simply meant for and about HIM, I grew up and worked in the small logging, mining, fishing and bush towns of B.C., where we appreciated his sort of blunt, no-BS speech.

I also have to moderate what I would prefer to say on various forums of this sort, due to being "banned" if I stated a few facts about Canada and our contemporary cultural imbroglio. I did not and do not accuse you of being PC, gawd, I would never do that, except to a genuine enemy and I suspect that you and I have similar opinions on who the "enemy" really is these days.

Anyway, I see your point, but, I tend to dislike histrionics of the Paul Gross sort and thus did not think much of the movie. In short, my comments were of a general nature, not directed to you, specifically.

[Canadawwi]

Sounds good.

Too bad there isn't a place to discuss the current issues in Canada. I also suspect we might agree on many areas.

On aside - Report today in the National Post said that 47% of Canadians could not name a single Canadian author. Not very hopeful. The statistics for knowledge of the first World War among students is quite limited from what I've seen.

[Jim Clay]

Not having seen the film, and seeing no indications of a UK cinema release, I obviously can't comment on its quality or otherwise. I would make the point though that Paul Gross has stated that he made the film as a tribute to his grandfather who did fight at Passchendaele. In further support of the much-maligned Mr Gross, I'd also make these points:

1. This was a 100% Canadian production I believe, ie no Hollywood input or control.

2. Despite Gross's aim to honour his grandad, this was necessarily primarily a commercial venture, ie it was made with a view to getting paying punters into the cinemas, not as a purist WW1 'documentary' for the discerning few.

3. Egomaniac? Histrionics? The nice Mr Gross? Surely some mistake?

Jim

[stiletto_33853]

I saw the film for the first time last night. Overall impressions is that it would not be on my playlist of good movies to watch on a cold night wrapped up in front of the fire. There were some good parts in it notably towards the end, but I do feel that it was a wasted effort on what could and should have been a truly good movie. In today's genre of movie's but left a lot to be desired.

Andy