High Wood

[andrew pugh]

Good Morning All.

I have read so much about High Wood and it is said that the remains of 7 to 8 thousand soldiers of both sides remain buried in that small wood,Why was it never given extra attention by the battlefield clearance units after the war to try and clear the wood as much as possible or did they? Hope someone could explain.

Regards Andy

[jay dubaya]

Hi Andy,

I've always believed it to be because of the massive amount of unexploded ordinance amongst the shattered woodland. The following is quoted from Terry Norman's book,

'High Wood was never cleared when the Somme battlefields were methodically combed by military exhumation parties after the Armistice. The thickness ot its young and thrusting undergrowth, coupled with the large quantities of live ammunition within its perimeters, made the wood too impenetrable for anything beyond a cursory search. It is said that the wood is the final resting place of over 8000 British and German dead. The only dispute about this figure is that it is possibly on the conservative side'

High Wood by Philip Johnstone, 1918

Ladies and gentlemen, this is High Wood,

Called by the French, Bois des Fourneaux,

The famous spot which in Nineteen-Sixteen,

July, August and September was the scene

Of long and bitterly contested strife,

By reason of its High commanding site.

Observe the effect of shell-fire in the trees

Standing and fallen; here is wire; this trench

For months inhabited, twelve times changes hands;

(They soon fall in), used later as a grave.

It has been said on good authority

That in the fighting for this patch of wood

Were killed somewhere above eight thousand men,

Of whom the greater part were buried here,

This mound on which you stand being ...

Madame, please,

You are requested kindly not to touch

Or take away the Company's property

As souvenirs; you'll find we have on sale

A large variety, all guaranteed.

As I was saying, all is as it was,

This is an unknown British officer,

The tunic having lately rotten off.

Please follow me - this way ...

The path, sir, please,

The ground which was secured at great expense

The Company keeps absolutely untouched,

And in that dug-out (genuine) we provide

Refreshments at a reasonable rate.

You are requested not to leave about

Paper, or ginger-beer bottles, or orange-peel,

There are waste-paper baskets at the gate.

This is a 'body density map' believed to have been compiled by the Graves Regestration Units when the battlefields were cleared during 1919-1921,

[jay dubaya]

The numbers represent the bodies found in each square. The following map of High Wood shows bodies recovered in the 20s, 30s and 40s (these are represented by the red dots) and were interred into London Cemtery

Jon

[NigelS]

...and were interred into London Cemtery

Was this a rare exception or did this happen a lot with bodies recovered from other areas post war; was there any particular reason for using a London cemetery (which one)? seems strangely at odds with the non-repatriation policy followed for the vast majority of the fallen during the war itself.

NigelS

[jay dubaya]

Hi NigelS, London Cemetery is on the western edge of High Wood (see first map I posted)

Jon

[NigelS]

Doh! Should have realised that; engage brains before posting !

NigelS

[Borderman]

The numbers represent the bodies found in each square. The following map of High Wood shows bodies recovered in the 20s, 30s and 40s (these are represented by the red dots) and were interred into London Cemtery

The red dots are from the 40's? And the numbers from the 20's & 30's?

So the wood is cleared then?

Does this mean that there aren't 8,000 or so lads still in the wood?

If so, I wonder why the myth continues?

Odd

Cheers

Dave

[Clio]

In 1994 I was informed by a local source (well placed to know) that the Wood had been fully cleared.

I do know that it is a very apposite post theme for this day in history, given what happened there on 15th September 1916. I used to often find 'In Memoriam' pictures and messages pinned to the replacement trees bordering the path around the Wood, particulary to 47th Div units. I hope this practice continues.

[towisuk]

A couple of very enlightening maps Jon, many thanks for the input

regards

Tom

[Terry Carter]

Correct... The red dots on the map were remains found after the battlefield clearance of 1920/21 period and now reburied in London Cemetery. The numbers in the squares relate to the bodies exhumed and reburied in Caterpillar Valley Cemetery.

I collated the info from the HQ of the CWGC a few years ago.

Terry

[JimSmithson]

Hi Jay

The second map intrigues me. I have seen the first and the role of the numbers is clear. Are you saying the red dots are only from the 40s and the numbers from 20s & 30s or....? The fact that the numbers are on intersections seems strange. I can't work out how they are used. Can someone help?

Jim

[Borderman]

Ummmm...........

So the wood was cleared in the early 20's.

Why did they go back in the 40's (and wasn't there a bit of a war on then?) to find some more?

I count roughly 40 - 50 red dots (so at least the remains of 40 - 50 soldiers)

What prompted the revisit?

And if they found so many in an area that was already supposedly cleared, just how well was the job done in the 20's?

My first thought was road improvement - as so many are grouped around the road, but that can't be the case as at least 17 or so are quite a distance from the road.

Any thoughts

Cheers

Dave

[robertsim]

This is fascinating for me, I was under the impression that no clearance had been carried out but clearly there is evidence to the contrary. A couple of things intrigue me:

Was there likely to be any confusion between the remains of a Black Watch soldier and a Glasgow Highlander and if so could some be buried under the wrong badge?

Looking at the numbers on the map isn't it probable that the wood and surrounding battlefield is still the last resting place for many who died there?

[andrew pugh]

Good Morning All.

Thank you all for your input into my question on High Wood,could I ask is there a list of body density maps available to purchase, if so from where please?

Best Regards Andy

[truthergw]

...............

Was there likely to be any confusion between the remains of a Black Watch soldier and a Glasgow Highlander and if so could some be buried under the wrong badge?

...........................

If an unknown is identified to a regiment it would normally be fairly certain otherwise he would be remembered as a soldier of a Scottish regiment. That said, people searched, people retrieved the remains, recorded the finds etc. and people make mistakes. We know that mistakes were made despite all precautions and they are still being rectified to this day. As to your last point, I should be surprised if anyone gave a 100% guarantee that the woods are clear of remains.

[Guest KevinEndon]

The yellow dots in the wood total 894, was the 8,000 number including the blue numbers in map 1

Kevin

[jay dubaya]

I'm sure this may have been metioned before, but does the 8000 men 'killed' that Philip Johnstone writes of translate as 'remain' in Terry Norman's book?

Do the numbers represent only British and Commnwealth troops?

Jon

[Terry Carter]

The numbers are placed on the intersections of the map because that is the Trench map reference that was given (50 yard x 50 yard square). Regarding 8000 soldiers still missing in High Wood. Look at the casualty (KIA/DOW) figures for each battalion that served in High Wood from 15 July to 15 September, 1916. It will be nowhere near 8000. My opinion is more men were killed either side of High Wood, specially the Wood Land side, than in the wood itself.

Regarding the red dots. These are trench map positions of bodies found after the clearances. The majority being in the 1920's and 1930's with just the odd one either side of WW2. 38,000 remains were found on the Western Front from 1921 to 1939.

Terry