58th Battery, 35 Brigade, RFA at Asiago June 1918

[Dagwood]

This is my first post so apologies if I've posted to the wrong part of the forum. I've been doing some research on my Grandfather, George Burke, who was a gunner in 58th Bty, 35 Brigade, Royal Field Artillery. I've been lucky as his Army records have survived and the summary at the bottom of the page is based on them.

I would be very grateful for some advice in a number of areas. Firstly is it possible to drill down on one particular battery, and if so how do you do it? I think there are records for 35 Brigade RFA at Kew, would these be worth looking at? Next I think Kew also has maps of the Asiago sector, are any of these show likely to show artillery positions, and if so what degree of detail would they go into? Finally I'm off to Asiago for a couple of days starting 24 August, what are the `must sees', plus are there any sources of information over there that might lead me to the whereabouts of 58 Bty on 15 June?

Finally, finally (!), I might have time to visit one or more of the British cemetaries over there, would anyone like photos taken of the graves of particular soldiers?

Stephen

Gunner George Burke

Regimental number 131584

21 April 1916 – joined artillery training school at Rollestone

29 July 1916 posted to 48^th Division BEF

10 September 1916 posted to 58 Battery, 35 Brigade, RFA 7^th Division

21 November 1917 posted to Italy

15 June 1918 his Brigade supported the 23^rd Division at Asiago, he was shot, gassed and taken prisoner

15 June 1918 to 16 November 1918, Terezin POW camp in the Deutsh Gabel district

[pw643]

Stephen

58 Bty still exists today as 58 (Eyre's) Bty as part of 12 Regt RA at Thorney Island.

Firstly I am not sure as to whether it is of direct decendancy as I do not have the list to hand but I am sure somebody will. There may be records held by the Bty itself.

Regards

Paul

[Dagwood]

Stephen

58 Bty still exists today as 58 (Eyre's) Bty as part of 12 Regt RA at Thorney Island.

Firstly I am not sure as to whether it is of direct decendancy as I do not have the list to hand but I am sure somebody will. There may be records held by the Bty itself.

Regards

Paul

Paul

Many thanks for this information, I'll make some enquiries.

regards

Stephen

[Dagwood]

Just a quick update. Being new to WWI military history I wasn't prepared for what I found when I went to Kew to look at 35 Brigade, Royal Field Artillery's war diaries. Not only were there detailed handwritten diarty entries for every day of the war (and after), but roneo copies of orders from 7 Division HQ were inserted with them. The latter went into huge detail on artillery objectives for attacks, rates of fire, amount of ammo allowed, types of ammo etc.

My main interest was what happened to 58 Battery RFA on 15 June 1918 at Asiago. Here I found that the very detailed diary entries were supplemented by a 5 page typed supplement (see above). The tone of the latter suggests that questions had been asked as to why only one of 35 Brigades batteries had gone into artillery action that day. I think I've found the answer as what happened to my grandfather. He and his crew were preparing a new offensive battery position north of Pelly's Cross (close to Cesuna), and in front of the British wire, this was in the sector held by the Oxford and Buckinghamshire regt. A two-pronged Austrian attack came in at this sector. A sergeant from the Ox and Bucks reported that 58 Bty found some rifles (their artillery was at Carriola) and helped to fend off the attack. After the action the bty had sustained casualties, one officer wounded, four other ranks wounded, one other ranks killed, and one other ranks missing. If my grandfather was with his bty that day then he was the OR missing. Brigade HQ had sent a runner to warn them of the impending attack, of the likelyhood of gas and to tell them to get the h*ll out of there.

Looking at the maps this will enable me to get to roughly where George Burke was captured when I go to Asiago in ten day's time.

So I'd definitely recommend a trip to Kew.

Stephen

[Guest willie266]

Hey Dagwood

Thanks for letting us know about these records. I have just discovered my grandfathers unit and resting place and now i know that the war diaries exist i am going to dive into the history a bit more.

Should it be of any relevance to you i am looking at the 58th Bty up to and around the early battles of the Somme. My grandfather was a professional soldier before the war and died in the first Somme battles and s buried at Fricourt.

I also know he was attached to X.7 TMB (X = Medium mortar, 7 = 7 Division, TMB = Trench Mortar Battery).

Cheers!

Andy

[Greenwoodman]

Missed this one early on.

I hope you enjoy Asiago as much as I have in my two visitis.

Firstly can I recommend a map which you can get from the Azienda di Promozione Turistica in Asiago. Its called "I Luoghi della Grande Guerra 1915.1918". Its an excellent map showing the various front lines during the war. As its an Italian map, it doesn't mention locations by British place names, but if you get hold of it Pelly Cross is at grid ref 923801.

You should certainly be able to find traces of the front line north of Pelly Cross. Trenches here were often blasted out of the rock. The trenches occupied by 23 Div are still visible on the San Sisto ridge, though I've not looked at the 48th's front. There is a good mueum in Canove, just north of Cesuna. For Mrs Dagwood, good shoe shop to visit in Canove while you're in the museum. Tourist Info on the SW outskirts of Asiago, and an excellent local cheese shop on that road too.

Here are some book titles with reference to 48 Div and artillery in Italy. Gladden's is an excellent infantryman's account of the campaign, and I believe his battalion was just to the right of 48 Div on 15/06/18, but fairly difficult to come by. But you could certainly get McKay's "Asiago" Battleground Europe before you go if you don't have it, and Dalton can be read online.

Barnett, Lt Col George Henry "With the 48th Division in Italy" London Blackwood 1923.

Cassar, George H The Forgotten Front, the British Army in Italy 1917-1918; London, 1998

Dalton, Hugh With British Guns in Italy London 1919 (2005 Reprint by N&M Press) (ISBN: 1845740211) Lieutenant R.G.A.THIS CAN BE READ ONLINE AT PROJECT GUTENBERG

Dopson, FW The 48th Division Signals in the Great War Bristol (private) 1938

Edmonds, JE Official History of the War Military Operations Italy 1915-1919 London (Reprint 1986)

Gladden, Norman Across the Piave IWM London 1959

Mackay, F "Asiago, 15/16 June 1918 The Battle in the Woods and Clouds" Barnsley, 2001 MUST HAVE

Mackay, F Touring the Italian Front; British, American, French & German Forces in Northern Italy, 1917-1918. 2003

Wilks, J & Wilks, E The British Army in Italy 1917-1919 Barnsley 1998 GOOD but dry

Have a great time.

[pw643]

Stephen

Todays 58 Bty is not the direct descendent I have discovered and nor does it have any direct current descendents, apologies for raising your hopes.

Regards

Paul

[Dagwood]

Missed this one early on.

I hope you enjoy Asiago as much as I have in my two visitis.

Firstly can I recommend a map which you can get from the Azienda di Promozione Turistica in Asiago. Its called "I Luoghi della Grande Guerra 1915.1918". Its an excellent map showing the various front lines during the war. As its an Italian map, it doesn't mention locations by British place names, but if you get hold of it Pelly Cross is at grid ref 923801.

You should certainly be able to find traces of the front line north of Pelly Cross. Trenches here were often blasted out of the rock. The trenches occupied by 23 Div are still visible on the San Sisto ridge, though I've not looked at the 48th's front. There is a good mueum in Canove, just north of Cesuna. For Mrs Dagwood, good shoe shop to visit in Canove while you're in the museum. Tourist Info on the SW outskirts of Asiago, and an excellent local cheese shop on that road too.

Here are some book titles with reference to 48 Div and artillery in Italy. Gladden's is an excellent infantryman's account of the campaign, and I believe his battalion was just to the right of 48 Div on 15/06/18, but fairly difficult to come by. But you could certainly get McKay's "Asiago" Battleground Europe before you go if you don't have it, and Dalton can be read online.

Barnett, Lt Col George Henry "With the 48th Division in Italy" London Blackwood 1923.

Cassar, George H The Forgotten Front, the British Army in Italy 1917-1918; London, 1998

Dalton, Hugh With British Guns in Italy London 1919 (2005 Reprint by N&M Press) (ISBN: 1845740211) Lieutenant R.G.A.THIS CAN BE READ ONLINE AT PROJECT GUTENBERG

Dopson, FW The 48th Division Signals in the Great War Bristol (private) 1938

Edmonds, JE Official History of the War Military Operations Italy 1915-1919 London (Reprint 1986)

Gladden, Norman Across the Piave IWM London 1959

Mackay, F "Asiago, 15/16 June 1918 The Battle in the Woods and Clouds" Barnsley, 2001 MUST HAVE

Mackay, F Touring the Italian Front; British, American, French & German Forces in Northern Italy, 1917-1918. 2003

Wilks, J & Wilks, E The British Army in Italy 1917-1919 Barnsley 1998 GOOD but dry

Have a great time.

Many thanks for the information. We've just returned having had a great time, handbag and cheese buying expeditions included. I'll post a more detailed account later, but a couple of highlights included using Frances Mackay's books to locate Pelly's Cross, including the remains of a trench complete with rusty meat cans! And yesterday crawling up rough tracks in an underpowered hire car to get to the base at Carriola (Fanshaw was there on 15 June, and so were 58 Battery's guns), and finding quite an impressive tunnel, presumably part of a command post?

There's a move afoot in the area to protect their WWI heritage, I'll post more on this later.

regards

Stephen

[Dagwood]

Hey Dagwood

Thanks for letting us know about these records. I have just discovered my grandfathers unit and resting place and now i know that the war diaries exist i am going to dive into the history a bit more.

Should it be of any relevance to you i am looking at the 58th Bty up to and around the early battles of the Somme. My grandfather was a professional soldier before the war and died in the first Somme battles and s buried at Fricourt.

I also know he was attached to X.7 TMB (X = Medium mortar, 7 = 7 Division, TMB = Trench Mortar Battery).

Cheers!

Andy

Hi Andy

If you come across a soldier called Ogden in your researches please let me know. One of my grandfather's stories was that they lost some men to a German sniper, and Ogden, a mate of his, went out early one morning with a rifle and shot the man. According to my father it was one of my grandfather's clearest recollections.

regards

Stephen

[simonrguy]

My main interest was what happened to 58 Battery RFA on 15 June 1918 at Asiago. Here I found that the very detailed diary entries were supplemented by a 5 page typed supplement (see above). The tone of the latter suggests that questions had been asked as to why only one of 35 Brigades batteries had gone into artillery action that day. I think I've found the answer as what happened to my grandfather. He and his crew were preparing a new offensive battery position north of Pelly's Cross (close to Cesuna), and in front of the British wire, this was in the sector held by the Oxford and Buckinghamshire regt. A two-pronged Austrian attack came in at this sector. A sergeant from the Ox and Bucks reported that 58 Bty found some rifles (their artillery was at Carriola) and helped to fend off the attack. After the action the bty had sustained casualties, one officer wounded, four other ranks wounded, one other ranks killed, and one other ranks missing. If my grandfather was with his bty that day then he was the OR missing. Brigade HQ had sent a runner to warn them of the impending attack, of the likelyhood of gas and to tell them to get the h*ll out of there.

Looking at the maps this will enable me to get to roughly where George Burke was captured when I go to Asiago in ten day's time.

So I'd definitely recommend a trip to Kew.

Stephen

Is there any more detail you have on the Ox & Bucks Regt? It was on 15 June 1918 that Albert Kent was killed in action in Asiago fighting with the 1st/4th Bn., Oxford and Bucks Light Infantry. He is one of the lads on the war memorial I am researching. Any info would be gratefully received

Thanks

Simon

[Dagwood]

Is there any more detail you have on the Ox & Bucks Regt? It was on 15 June 1918 that Albert Kent was killed in action in Asiago fighting with the 1st/4th Bn., Oxford and Bucks Light Infantry. He is one of the lads on the war memorial I am researching. Any info would be gratefully received

Thanks

Simon

Simon

I probably haven't got much more than you. My reading is that the Ox and Bucks occupied that part of the frontline between Pelly's Cross and Canove, and had advanced picquets well in front of the lines. I visited the area a couple of weeks ago and took some photos, I can send these to you if you wish? My grandfather's battery was digging new gun positions in the same area. My impression is that the Ox and Bucks reorganised my grandfather's battery into makeshift infantry to help ward off the attack. Mackay's two books `Asiago' and `Touring the Italian Front' are worth a look. The Oxs and Buck war diary would also be worth looking at, as well as the official histories. Was Albert Kent one of the regular soldiers, or was he one of the cooks and others who was handed a rifle and told to get stuck in?

regards

Stephen

[niimmm]

Hello folks,

I found this thread on the 58th battery nd would like to ask a further question...

I've bought a KIA medal group to a 58th battery Driver who died on 12 October 14. He's the only casualty on that date. What is the best way of finding out what happened on that day? Does anyone here have the war diary entry for that date?

Simon

 

Edited 28 January , 2017 by niimmm

[Rockdoc]

I have the 35 Brigade diary but it doesn't help. On the 9th of October, 58th Battery was detached and sent to Ostend to become attached to 22nd Brigade so his death may well be in that one. 35's diary doesn't make it clear when 58th returned but they were back by the 18th.

Keith