4thGordons Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 On several occasions questions have arisen about SMLE variations. For some this is meaningless and tedious minutiae... for others just boring Still.... I have been trying to put together a guide (not completed yet by any means) documenting this however I was taking some pictures tonight and it gave me an idea. Here is a little quiz. Two rifles, each presented left/right side. How many differences can you see between them? I reckon there are at least 9 visible - and one, not visible in these pics but perhaps might be inferred which is perhaps the most surprising of all. So here goes....how many differences can be seen? RIFLE 1 RIFLE 2 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 2 has stock disc, 1 doesn't 1 has Ishy screw? in forearm 2 doesn't 2 has something... in front of the magazine, 1 does not 1 has a square cocking piece, 2 is rounded 2 has cutoff 1 does not And I think there's something different about the safties. How did I do for someone who has only ever seen 1 smle in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2009 2 has stock disc, 1 doesn't 1 has Ishy screw? in forearm 2 doesn't 2 has something... in front of the magazine, 1 does not 1 has a square cocking piece, 2 is rounded 2 has cutoff 1 does not And I think there's something different about the safeties. How did I do for someone who has only ever seen 1 smle in person? Excellent! all accurate apart from the last one - but there are a couple more (in front of mag): 2 has a sling swivel mount (with sling swivel) whilst 1 has a loop for an action cover. Actually nothing different about the safeties here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59165 Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 Both fore & rear sight guards are different,Chris & I have a feeling that you have one brass & one steel but plates but thats just a guess....it being 4.55 a.m. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2009 Both fore & rear sight guards are different,Chris & I have a feeling that you have one brass & one steel but plates but thats just a guess....it being 4.55 a.m. Dave. Actually both buttplates are brass.... but yes rear sight guards differ and foresight protector differs in 2 ways. No1 has no mounting for the piling swivel, No2 does No1 has square sight protector wings. No2 has rounded There is also one difference related to the foresight protector but not actually OF the foresight protector/nosepiece 4.55am? good grief! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 The top one is a 7.62 Indian 2A/2A1 that has a .303. instead of the 7.62 square magazine. Hows that for out of the box thinking?... I know its probably wrong but at 7.40 am.. rational thinking just wont happen and was the best I could do Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 23 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2009 The top one is a 7.62 Indian 2A/2A1 that has a .303. instead of the 7.62 square magazine. Hows that for out of the box thinking?... I know its probably wrong but at 7.40 am.. rational thinking just wont happen and was the best I could do Gaz OOOH remarkably close.... especially for 07:40! but in this case both rifles are .303' Rifle two does have many of the characteristics of the Indian 2a/a1 (esp the square foresight protector) and the transverse screw through the fore stock (the "ishy" screw mentioned above so called because of the Ishapore arsenal) is a common addition (even on rifles originally produced in the UK or Australia if they were FTRed through Ishapore) whilst in Indian service. The metal reinforcing strap at the rear of the fore stock (like those on No4 Enfields of WWII vintage) is also an indicator that it is Indian furniture Here is the basic list of differences: Component..................Rifle1----------------------------------Rifle 2 1 Foresight protector.....Squared protector blades.........Rounded protector blades 2................................No stacking swivel mount...........Stacking swivel mount 3................................Large head retaining screw........Small head retaining screw (this one wasn't mentioned probably because it is hard to see on the low res photos) 4 Rear sight protector Symmetrical flat protector..........Asymmetrical (right offset) 5 Fore-end.................Reinforcing screw (transverse)...none 8................................Rear reinforcing strap...............none (again not mentioned probably for the same reason as above) 7 Trigger Guard..........Loop (action cover)...................Swivel mount 8 Magazine Cut-Off....(none)High cut fore end..............Present (low cut foreend) 9 Cocking Piece........ Square(slab sided).....................Rounded (button) 10 Stock marking disc.None........................................Present So Rifle 1 is a No1 MkIII* and Rifle 2 is a No1 MkIII but here is the real reason I posted them, Rifle 2 was produced at BSA in 1912 whereas Rifle 1 was produced at Ishapore in 1972 Illustrating a 60 year production life. (There was even a small production run of No1s in .303 in the mid 1980s but I have not run acrross one yet) Interestingly (and in a desperate attempt to stay on topic ) when production of the .303 was resumed in the 1970s the rifles were produced to the Great War No1 MkIII* standard and the rifles were so marked (No1Mk3*) A production and service life, of such length and with so few changes is a remarkable testament to the design. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 This thread was enormously helpful for me. As I said, I have only seen in person 1 single SMLE, but I tend to read a lot, and the two pictures next to each other really helped me to understand the differences I had read about and only knew abstractly, rather visually and concretely. Please, do more things like this! And why an extra sling swivel in front of the magazine? I thought thats what it might be but said naaah, since the rifle already has 2, obviously in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 28 May , 2009 Share Posted 28 May , 2009 Wasn't far off. then.. Just hope my exam answer was as close as they and I should be OK (that explains why I was up so early, 9am exam on a Saturday... shouldn't complain really I got the day off work for it) It was the rear re-enforcing screw/strap that made the think, it screamed Indian, that or it was a No4 stock someone had messed around with. I thought that was a little too far out of the box You can still see the Indian Enfields now on TV, it must have the longest service life of any rifle so far, I cant think of one thats issued and had been around for over a century. Nice game, it certainly made me think!, Thanks Chris Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 28 May , 2009 Share Posted 28 May , 2009 As someone who drilled with and fired 303s in cadets and TA, might I confess to a grievous sin? In cadets, we tended to distinguish 2 kinds of rifle. Old ones with leaf sights and good ones with aperture sights. For drilling, there was little difference but when we went to the range, we preferred the aperture sight. In TA there was not the same range, all aperture sights and referred to as a 303. Any reference to an SMLE would have resulted in a blank stare. Incidentally, same goes for a Brodie. Never heard of one until I joined the forum. Helmet or tin hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 28 May , 2009 Share Posted 28 May , 2009 Theres one you all did not see the serial numbers are different As truthergw indicated (showing my age) in the cadets they wus called 303's I was lucky enough to be at the ranges when the SLR was demonstrated, at the time we all thought it was fantastic, opinions soon changed when we had to use them. Always had a fondness for the No. 4, won many of the "pull bulls" after the serious range practice was finished. Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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