Munitions workers armlet? Any idea what letters stand for?

[potty5]

Hi all, sorry to start a new topic on the same subject, but here is a photo of said armlet on the ladies arm. It looks like C.I.W. but could be G.I.W. As said before she worked in Crewe Works. Cheers, Mark

[TonyE]

My bet is still that it is "CIW" and she was part of the inspection department.

Regards

TonyE

[susanhemmings]

"Crewe Inspection Works" putting it all together

[centurion]

r

"Crewe Inspection Works" putting it all together

Crewe Works Inspector (or Inspectorate) would make sense but Crewe Inspection Works doesn't - it means that at Crewe there was a factory that produced inspection!

[Andy Wade]

Cartridge Inspection Works/er?

Cordite Inspection Works/er?

I have a picture of a munitions factory badge (from WW2) which has AID on it, it stands for 'Ammunition Inspection Department'. Just thinking along those lines.

[FROGSMILE]

Cartridge Inspection Works/er?

Cordite Inspection Works/er?

I have a picture of a munitions factory badge (from WW2) which has AID on it, it stands for 'Ammunition Inspection Department'. Just thinking along those lines.

Well done Andy, I think that is far more likely and fits with similar acronyms as you say.

[centurion]

Worker - works sort of but Works doesn't - who has ever heard of an inspection works?

[Andy Wade]

Centurion, that's a valid argument on the sense of the wording. It only makes part sense.

I don't think we'll get this without someone unearthing a bit of history that explains it. My own attempt was just a stab in the dark based on something I'd seen from a later war. Incidentally my own source originated from the British Medals Forum (and even then it took about 6 months for someone to come up with the right answer) so maybe that's a good place to ask the question.

[FROGSMILE]

Centurion, that's a valid argument on the sense of the wording. It only makes part sense.

I don't think we'll get this without someone unearthing a bit of history that explains it. My own attempt was just a stab in the dark based on something I'd seen from a later war. Incidentally my own source originated from the British Medals Forum (and even then it took about 6 months for someone to come up with the right answer) so maybe that's a good place to ask the question.

I think it could be either Andy. Looking at old industrial terminology the designation 'works' was often used to denote a workshop or section of a factory or manufacturing process. Ultimately I think it depends on the function of the armband, i.e. was it to mark out the person as having a special role, or was it simply intended to show the section where they worked. On balance 'worker seems the more likely, as in 'war worker', but I do not believe that 'works' is inappropriate either. It was interesting to look the word up online in various dictionaries.

[TonyE]

Cartridge Inspection Works/er?

Cordite Inspection Works/er?

I have a picture of a munitions factory badge (from WW2) which has AID on it, it stands for 'Ammunition Inspection Department'. Just thinking along those lines.

If it is early WW2 then it stands for Army Inspection Department. Later it was changed and "AID" was allocated to the Air Ministry as "Air Inspection Department"

Reverting to the original question, what is wrong with "Chief Inspector Woolwich", the department resposible for all inspection of armaments? The drawings against which production was inspected had a "CIW" prefix and every factory had an inspection department answering to CIW. It is logical that anyone working for the CIW would have that armband.

Regards

TonyE

[centurion]

If it is early WW2 then it stands for Army Inspection Department. Later it was changed and "AID" was allocated to the Air Ministry as "Air Inspection Department"

Reverting to the original question, what is wrong with "Chief Inspector Woolwich", the department resposible for all inspection of armaments? The drawings against which production was inspected had a "CIW" prefix and every factory had an inspection department answering to CIW. It is logical that anyone working for the CIW would have that armband.

Regards

TonyE

If so is it not likely to stand for Chief Inspectorate Woolwich?

[TonyE]

I don't think so. The organisation is always referred to as the Inspection Department Woolwich with a Chief Inspector Woolwich and there was also an assistant Chief Inspector Woolwich. See Vol IX of the History of Munitions for example.

This organisation chart is from that volume.

Regards

TonyE

[centurion]

In which case wouldn't one expect an armband that said IDW?

Thanks for the OC - I had a Gt Uncle in "Guns"

[Andy Wade]

At the risk of being grabbed by the scruff of the neck for discussing WW2 things, a couple of years ago I took an Oral history from a lady who had worked at the Royal Ordnance Factory at Steeton in West Yorkshire during WW2, she'd had a badge which said AID and she said it meant Air Inspection Department. Now I didn't have an image of the badge but posted a question on the British Medal Forum asking for information and got a reply with a picture of the badge and that AID stood for Ammunition Inspection Department. I believed this because their argument also included the badge for the Air(craft) Inspection Department who were the people who delivered aeroplanes from factories to the airfields during WW2. I didn't think they could both be called Air Inspection Department.

OK off the WW2 bit and back on topic If it is true that the AID meant Air Inspection Department later in WW2 and Army Inspection Department in the earlier part of WW2 then can we assume anything from this tale about CIW in WW1?

I think we can at least agree that the 'I' means Inspection, can't we?

[kellysgirl]

Apologies, but I have just complicated matters by starting another topic with a photo of local WW1 workers who were designated 'C.I.W'. Didn't realise there was already a thread. My photo of them is over here:

 

[kellysgirl]

I was assuming that, in the case of my photo, the 'C' in 'C.I.W' stood for 'Chalfont'. Clearly not.

[TonyE]

At the risk of being grabbed by the scruff of the neck for discussing WW2 things, a couple of years ago I took an Oral history from a lady who had worked at the Royal Ordnance Factory at Steeton in West Yorkshire during WW2, she'd had a badge which said AID and she said it meant Air Inspection Department. Now I didn't have an image of the badge but posted a question on the British Medal Forum asking for information and got a reply with a picture of the badge and that AID stood for Ammunition Inspection Department. I believed this because their argument also included the badge for the Air(craft) Inspection Department who were the people who delivered aeroplanes from factories to the airfields during WW2. I didn't think they could both be called Air Inspection Department.

OK off the WW2 bit and back on topic If it is true that the AID meant Air Inspection Department later in WW2 and Army Inspection Department in the earlier part of WW2 then can we assume anything from this tale about CIW in WW1?

I think we can at least agree that the 'I' means Inspection, can't we?

At the risk of staying off topic, (but trying to show relevance to WWI) it is entirely logical that someone at Steeton would have an Air Inspection Department badge since Steeton manufactured 20mm Hispano ammunition for the Royal Air Force and inspection of their output would have been the responsibility of the AID..

AFAIK there was no such animal as the Ammunition Inspection Department. Small arms ammunition was the responsibility of the Chief Inspector, Small Arms Ammunition (CISAA) and other ammunition that of the Chief Inspector Land Service Ammunition (CILSA). The Royal Navy had their own inspection organisation.

Regards

TonyE