Kings Royal Rifle Corps

[amb]

I am researching a soldier, Pte R/1411 Herbert Brooks who was attached to the above. I looked up the 18th on the internet, and it had Arts and Crafts in brackets. I wondered if anyone could let me know what this means? Is it anything to do with the Artists Rifles? It said the corps started at Gidea Park, and I know the Artists Rifles were at Hare Hall, Romford which must be quite close by.

Many thanks

AMB

[Greenwoodman]

Separate from the Artists' Rifles, which were battalions of the 28th London Regiment.

Some Service battalions had this sort of title added after their official designation, for instance there was the 16th (Service) Battalion KRRC (Church Lads Brigade) - formed from past and present members of the Church Lads Brigade, and the 17th (Service) Battalion KRRC (British Empire League) raised in London by the BEL. 18th (Service) Battalion KRRC (Arts and Crafts) was raised at Gidea Park by Major Sir Herbert Raphael, who was a Liberal MP and owned Gidea Park. I don't know where the (Arts and Crafts) appellation came from, though I'm sure some pal will.

[PBI]

Artists and Craftsmen...encompasses a whole Range of Trades and Skills.

[raich]

I am researching a soldier, Pte R/1411 Herbert Brooks who was attached to the above. I looked up the 18th on the internet, and it had Arts and Crafts in brackets. I wondered if anyone could let me know what this means? Is it anything to do with the Artists Rifles? It said the corps started at Gidea Park, and I know the Artists Rifles were at Hare Hall, Romford which must be quite close by.

Many thanks

AMB

Herbert Raphael tried and failed to win the Romford seat and eventually suceeded in securing the South Derbyshire seat and became an MP. Raphael and his recruiting party would travel the south derbyshire and north west leicestershire villages signing up men. A story in my family says that the recruiting party were stood on the back of a dray and shamed the miners into joining (It was June 1915 I think) - a relative of mine among them. Many of the 18th KRRC were from the Burton & Swadlincote area. Many were killed on 15/09/1916 in the attack on flers, reducing the batallion by approx 250 on that day. The batallion did well and the day was considered a great success, especially for the 18th KRRC, who had the C.O. adjutant, plus 2 other senior officers killed by an enemy shell before zero hour. I've read that they stayed at Gidea park in tents before travelling to the Milton (Surrey Area) - there's a book on the East Surrey regiment (also 41st Division), which does a good background of the conditions of the division. The annals (sp) of the KRRC give some detail, but much better is the actual bn. diary.

I've read that Arts & Craft was because the recruits were from varied backgrounds, but that was on this website i.e. I can't give a booky reference.

R

[andiS]

When you say 'Milton' could you actually mean 'Mitcham'? The reason I ask is that I'm researching somebody from Mitcham who joined 18th KRRC in November 1915, when presumably they were bringing the unit up to strength after the losses of september that you which you mention.

Couldn't understand why somebody from Mitcham would have joined a unit from Essex - not only the wrong side of town, but also the wrong side of the river

[MBrockway]

Separate from the Artists' Rifles, which were battalions of the 28th London Regiment.

Some Service battalions had this sort of title added after their official designation, for instance there was the 16th (Service) Battalion KRRC (Church Lads Brigade) - formed from past and present members of the Church Lads Brigade, and the 17th (Service) Battalion KRRC (British Empire League) raised in London by the BEL. 18th (Service) Battalion KRRC (Arts and Crafts) was raised at Gidea Park by Major Sir Herbert Raphael, who was a Liberal MP and owned Gidea Park. I don't know where the (Arts and Crafts) appellation came from, though I'm sure some pal will.

Pals,

This one's puzzled me for a long time I must admit. I've spent many hours looking into this over the last year or so - so far failing to find anything definitive

There's nothing in either the KRRC Chronicles nor the Annals of the KRRC to explain 18/KRRC's "Arts & Crafts" tag. Nor have I ever found anything in any of my other KRRC reference material!

The most plausible thought I have come up with is it lies in Sir Herbert Raphael's connections with the Garden City movement of the late 1890's onwards, which in turn had strong links with The Arts & Crafts Movement. Sir Herbert was involved early on in Hampstead Garden Suburb and then went on to develop Gidea Park as a garden suburb on his estate in Romford from 1910 onwards. The development included individual houses by several prominent Arts & Crafts architects.

The Arts & Crafts Movement had a strong utopian/egalitarian/socialist thread as well as its more obvious outlets in art and design. Perhaps Sir Herbert Raphael, a Liberal MP, saw 18/KRRC as a vessel to realise some of these ideas in much the same way as 16/KRRC sought to express some of the ideology of the Church Lads Brigade?

Much of Arts & Crafts theory would chime in well with the rifles regiment traditions of the rifleman encouraged to think for himself, use initiative and act independently. The rifles emphasis on mastery of the "craft" of musketry would also resonate with the core Arts & Crafts principle of the master craftsmen, while the abhorrence of the Arts & Crafts towards workers subsumed as unskilled automata in industrial mass production could be paralleled with rifles attitudes to the mindless drill of the line regiments.

Of course, by 1914 such differences between rifles regiments and regiments of the line had largely disappeared, so this is perhaps a little fanciful!

I must stress this is purely personal speculation based on my own efforts to get to the bottom of this - so far I have found absolutely nothing to back this up!!

I would love to have something more definitive from the other Pals!

Cheers,

Mark

[raich]

When you say 'Milton' could you actually mean 'Mitcham'? The reason I ask is that I'm researching somebody from Mitcham who joined 18th KRRC in November 1915, when presumably they were bringing the unit up to strength after the losses of september that you which you mention.

Couldn't understand why somebody from Mitcham would have joined a unit from Essex - not only the wrong side of town, but also the wrong side of the river

Sorry I meant Milford, Surrey - the nearest station to Witley Camp where the 12th East Surrey first went to. I should have known better, I lived half a mile away for a couple of years. Sorry for the confusion.

They didn't arrive in France until approx. 6th May 1916, so I doubt if your man was an intake because of losses. I've seen quite a lot of Leicesters who upon stepping foot in France were transferred to Lancashire regiments...

Raich

[Myrtle]

I attended a talk on the formation of the Garden Suburbs quite recently and although Gidea Park's link with the KRRC was not mentioned, I agree with Mark's explanation of why the 18th was called the Arts & Crafts Battalion. Sir Herbert Raphael had started developing Gidea Park as a Garden Suburb following his involvement with the development of Hampstead Garden Suburb and therefore employed many of the prominant Arts & Crafts architects of the time, including C R Ashbee and Clough Williams-Ellis (the latter served in Welsh Guards and won MC)

Interestingly Sir Herbert also served during WW1. He started as a private with 24th Royal Fusiliers and then became a major with KRRC!!

Myrtle

[Charles Fair]

Mark - I'm inclined to agree with you, I had always assumed that the battalion was called after the Arts & Crafts Movement and was (initially at least) mainly full of skilled craftsmen.

My approach would be to try and pull together a nominal roll of the early enlistments into that battalion from CWGC/SDGW, MICs etc. Then find as many of their service records as you can to see what occupational groups they fall into. Would the initial intake of officers have included any prominent members of the movement?

Charles

(I am also a small scale collector of Arts and Crafts furniture, its so much nicer to have around the home)

[MBrockway]

Interestingly Sir Herbert also served during WW1. He started as a private with 24th Royal Fusiliers and then became a major with KRRC!!

Myrtle

Pals,

Here's more detail on Sir Herbert Raphael's military career from the 1916 KRRC Chronicle:

It was on 7th June, 1915, that it was decided to form the 18th Battalion. The first officer gazetted was Sir Herbert H. Raphael, Bart., M.P. Sir Herbert, although 56 years of age, had set a wonderful example to the younger men of the country by joining the 24th (Sportsmen's) Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers, and serving as a private. For some six months he did duty in the ranks, during which time he was made a lance-corporal. He was then given the rank of Captain, and commissioned to raise the 18th Battalion K.R.R.C. Recruiting centres were opened in London, Derby, and various places in Yorkshire and the Midlands. Recruits came in fast, and a depot was formed at Gidea Park, Essex, a part of Sir Herbert's estate, where the men were billeted in empty houses.

The 18th Battalion embarked for Le Havre on 2nd May 1916, but Sir Herbert was not one of the officers that proceeded overseas.

A bit of digging in elsewhere in the 1916 KRRC Chronicle shows Sir Herbert, now a Major, was officer commanding the Reserve Companies of 18th Battalion - about 900 men - when they transferred to the 19th (Reserve) Battalion on 25th November 1915, though they remained as a self-contained unit with the new battalion.

Their numbers were so large that on 27th December 1915, they were separated out once again to form a new battalion - 23rd (Reserve) Battalion KRRC. On 14th April 1916, Major Sir Herbert Raphael is listed as Second-in-Command of 23/KRRC. I suspect he may have been 2-i-c since the battalion's formation, but this is not clear in the Chronicle.

Interestingly in March 1916, 23/KRRC "inherited" the Band of 18/KRRC when the latter was put under orders for France. Sir Herbert apparently owned all their instruments!

Sir Herbert left the battalion on 1st May 1916 when he was appointed Assistant Provost Marshal at Folkestone.

It seeems he did not serve overseas after being commissioned. Clearly though, his age and status would make him much more effective on the Home Front.

Definitely an interesting man!

Cheers,

Mark

[MBrockway]

Mark - I'm inclined to agree with you, I had always assumed that the battalion was called after the Arts & Crafts Movement and was (initially at least) mainly full of skilled craftsmen.

Charles

(I am also a small scale collector of Arts and Crafts furniture, its so much nicer to have around the home)

Charles,

Sadly I have no evidence on the backgrounds of the recruits, but they certainly included miners from the Midlands as stated elsewhere in this thread.

I suspect that the principles of the Arts & Crafts Movement merely applied to the ethos of the battalion rather than the nature of the recruits, and that, in fact, those recruits were not mainly skilled craftsmen, but a fairly representative social cross section typical to most of the other KRRC and Rifle Brigade New Army battalions.

As I said earlier, rifles traditions could easily be seen as sympathetic with some of the principles of the Arts & Craft Movement.

Also the KRRC and Rifle Brigade, along with those of Guards, were the only regiments that recruited nationwide, rather than regionally. This may have been just as important to Sir Herbert's plans! It was certainly a factor in the decision of the Church Lads Brigade to approach the KRRC in forming 16th (Church Lads Brigade) Battalion KRRC.

Lastly of course, the KRRC and Rifle Brigade in those days were very famous regiments with a great deal of cachet and good "recruiting power". My own grandfather travelled all the way from Tenbury Wells on the Worcestershire/Shropshire border to Winchester to enlist in 12/KRRC.

Cheers,

Mark

[Myrtle]

Mark

Thanks for posting the details of Sir Herbert Raphael's service. Interesting that the men of the 18th were billetted in empty houses on his estate. I wonder if these were some of the Arts & Crafts buildings that had been designed immediately before the war began.

Myrtle

[MBrockway]

Mark

Thanks for posting the details of Sir Herbert Raphael's service. Interesting that the men of the 18th were billetted in empty houses on his estate. I wonder if these were some of the Arts & Crafts buildings that had been designed immediately before the war began.

Myrtle

Myrtle,

It was my assumption that the recruits were housed in the empty houses of Sir Herbert's Gidea Park housing development, which he began in 1910. That's just an assumption though with no evidence! I don't know whether Sir Herbert's Essex estate had other properties pre-dating the 1910- development.

My impression was Gidea Hall was a former country estate, which had been absorbed by the outward spread of London, but again, I've not researched that

Incidentally the Gidea Park estate is now known as Romford Garden Suburb I think.

Perhaps the battalion was named Arts & Crafts simply because their initial billets were in A&C houses! LOL!

Cheers,

Mark

[Jim Hastings]

Posted yesterday enquiring about the origin of the 'Arts and Crafts' titling to 18 KRRC and since found this thread, so thought would 'reactivate' for other forum pals that may be interested.

Many thanks to the original posters, a very interesting and informative thread

Cheers

Jim

[Leelums21]

interesting to know this as my gGrandfather Arthur Crouch was burried alive here there is also a nice Park in Romford amazingly Rapheals Park I was from near Romford and went when I was a lot younger

[masney]

Sorry for reopening this but i`ve been trying to find info about my Great Granddad LCpl. William O`Connor, who served in the 18th KRRC, who got mentioned for carrying wounded brothers on the battlefield, on the 15th Sept 1916.

If anyone could point me in the right direction i would really appreciate it.

[Leelums21]

wow what a good man might have even bought my great grandad back he was burried

[charlie962]

7 hours ago, masney said:

William O`Connor, who

Welcome to the Forum. Could you tell us the service number that appears on the rim of those two medals?

Charlie 

Edit. If it is 6551 then according to a hospital admission for dental work in July 1917 he was recorded as aged 39, over 2 years completed Service of which 1year 3 months was with the field force. Still with 18th KRRC, rank Corporal.

Since his entitlement to medals was British War Medal and Victory Medal then we know he didn't go overseas before 1916. That Hospital entry suggests it was cApril 1916.

C6551 from London volunteered July 1915 and joined Gidea Park, Essex 26/7/15 being posted immediately to the 18th KRRC. He went to France 2/5/16 with the rest of the Battalion, landing Le Havre the next day.

There's a War office Daily Casualty List 1917 noting a 8551Cpl W O'Connor wounded. I'm as sure as I can be this is actually 6551. Anyway the list is dated 26/10/17 and such lists appear normally about a month after actual wounding. So 6551 was wounded late Sept 1917 (which by coincidence a year after that commendation for work in the 1916 Flers attack)

Edited 25 December , 2023 by charlie962

[Leelums21]

3 hours ago, Leelums21 said:

wow what a good man might have even bought my great grandad back he was burried alive Kemmel and gassed

 

[masney]

Many thanks for the info Charlie.

Yes his Service Number is C6551, that's given me a little bit on insight.

 

[charlie962]

5 minutes ago, masney said:

Many thanks for the info Charlie.

Yes his Service Number is C6551, that's given me a little bit on insight.

 

Thank you for sharing that certificate.

[masney]

If i find anything else of his that mentions anything from the WW1 i`ll post it.

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, masney said:

If i find anything else of his that mentions anything from the WW1 i`ll post it.

Great. Good luck