1/KRRC War Diary for 25th Sept to 1st Oct 1915

[MBrockway]

Pals,

You may have seen my Topic on Rfn Ernest Groves, 1st Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps and the others mentioned on the Over Peover War Memorial over on the Soldiers Forum:

Rfn Ernest Groves R7559 1/KRRC d. Loos 29 Sep 1916, & others commemorated on Over Peover War Memorial, Cheshire

Do any of the KRRC specialists have access to the 1/KRRC War Diary covering the attacks on the Hulluch Quarries near Cite St Elie from 25th Sep 1915 onwards? This was part of the Battle of Loos. 1/KRRC were sent to reinforce 7th Division as part of a composite brigade known as "Carter's Force"

Rfn Groves was killed on 29th Sep. From the KRRC Chronicle (it's actually in the 1916 volume) it seems 1/KRRC were holding the captured trenches just short of The Quarries and facing stiff German counter-attacks.

Any extra detail would be very welcome!

Cheers,

Mark

[shaymen]

Do any of the KRRC specialists have access to the 1/KRRC War Diary

Mark

Mark

Certainly not a KRRC specialist, but YES I have the diaries you are looking for.

It is 1915 you want is it ???

Far too much to post on here, PM me your e-mail addie and I'll send them to you.

Glyn

[MBrockway]

Thanks Glyn - War Diary files received A OK.

The September 28th and 29th War Diary entries are in fact the same as the content in the KRRC Chronicle, so it looks like the Chronicle is just a straight transcription of the War Diary with just a few minor editorial corrections.

There is a margin note in the War Diary for Sept 27th that appears to say 'see "Carter's Brigade" diary' ...

Does anyone know anything about this document?

As far as I can ascertain, "Carter's Brigade" only existed from late on Sept 25th to the night of Sep 29th.

The 1/KRRC War Diary for Sept 25th states:

"At 10 p.m. orders were received from the Brigade [i.e. 6th Brigade, 2nd Division] that the Battalion [i.e. 1/KRRC] together with the 1st Royal Berkshire Regiment [also of 6th Bde] and 2nd Worcesters [of 5th Bde, also 2nd Div] were to form a Composite Brigade under Lieut.Colonel Carter and to move from Annequin at 7 a.m. [i.e. on Sept 26th] to Vermelles."

The Sept 26th entries continue: "... just before reaching Vermelles Colonel Carter met us and took Colonel Jelf with him to 7th Division Headquarteres (This Composite brigade being attached to this Division)."

And as per the image above, at 9 a.m. on Sept 27th Colonel Carter took over command of 85th Infantry Brigade, who were part of 28th Division and also fighting at Loos. The Composite Brigade then seems to have been absorbed temporaraily into 22nd Brigade, who were part of 7th Division and participating in the fighting around The Quarries directly alongside Carter's Brigade.

Where would one find the War Diary for such a short-lived unit? It was attached to the 7th Division, but formed of battalions from two different brigades in 2nd Division.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Mark

[shaymen]

Mark

Not sure about what I am about to say here but....

I read the diary and assumed (maybe wrongly) that as only a few words were put down on the 28th/29th that the 'see carters brigade diary' were the 2 pages below that... but now I'm not convinced.

Glyn

[MBrockway]

I read the diary and assumed (maybe wrongly) that as only a few words were put down on the 28th/29th that the 'see carters brigade diary' were the 2 pages below that... but now I'm not convinced.

Glyn

I'm also puzzled - I'm familiar with battalion war diaries, but it had not occurred to me that war diaries were kept by units higher up the hierarchy ... like Brigades and Divisions etc.

When you think about it, it would be logical for such units to do so, but I have not come across any mention of such things.

As I said above, 1/KRRC were technically part of the so-called "Carter's Brigade" from 26-29 Sept 1915, in fact the whole time they were "on loan" to 7th Division, and a lot of these pages cover those days.

Your theory about the "Carter's Brigade Diary" being another part of the same set of pages could explain why the chronological sequence of the pages is slightly out though.

Cheers,

Mark