Individual Burial Location (Body Density) Maps - Accuracy?

[8055Bell]

I'm looking at concentration records for Montauban on 1st July 1916.  I thought the Body Density Maps may offer a resource, but they seem to be wrong.  Hopefully the forum can assist with a few questions. See Body Density Map 57C

 

1. Montauban is to the south of Grid 57C.S.  Has anyone seen an equivalent  map for the north of 62C.A - including the battlefield approach?

2. In Sub-Square 27.c. I have names for 5 men corresponding with the number registered with DGRE.  Does anyone have a higher res. image where they can read the number in sub-square 27.d?  133??  Does anyone know anything about the German cemetery in La Place?

3.  The Manchester Pals held the line in 27.a & b in counter-attacks on 1st - 2nd July and I have no records of any of these men having known graves in these grid squares.  I've found at least 20 men registered in 27.a - even though the map says six.  Is it common for the numbers to be wrong? 

4.  I've tried to find records of men buried in 27.b; with no examples of the 98 registered graves found yet.  Can anyone help with this search?

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

Tim

Edited 5 February , 2017 by 8055Bell

[8055Bell]

On point 3, I've now seen that Caterpillar Wood cemetery was concentrated to Quarry Cemetery and these men will not have been included in the total shown in Grid 27.a, yet they are some the group on the concentration record.  I still think the total is more than 6 though.

[CROONAERT]

3 hours ago, 8055Bell said:

 

 

 

3.  The Manchester Pals held the line in 27.a & b in counter-attacks on 1st - 2nd July and I have no records of any of these men having known graves in these grid squares.  I've found at least 20 men registered in 27.a - even though the map says six.  Is it common for the numbers to be wrong? 

4.  I've tried to find records of men buried in 27.b; with no examples of the 98 registered graves found yet.  Can anyone help with this search?

 

 

 

Tim...

 

The 'Individual Burial Location' maps only number those whose burials were previously reported to/known of by the Directorate of Graves Registration and Enquires at the time the map was marked up and indicated (for the graves registration units about to begin work in those areas) where bodies were registered as buried according to DGRE records at one particular time. They do not indicate the total number of remains found in that location, nor do they indicate remains located in any cemeteries, unburied remains or unreported individual burials that may lie within the particular map square. Other (later or earlier) versions of maps will also exist (or they would have at one time anyway) and, therefore, the numbers indicated in the squares on one particular map will , more often than not, NOT correspond to the actual total amount of remains found in a particular location.

 

 

Quote

I thought the Body Density Maps may offer a resource, but they seem to be wrong

 

They were useful, accurate to available information and fit for purpose to the GRU's at the actual time that the maps were annotated, but ,in reality, are more of a curio with limited use than a resource in the modern world (... and I really am going to have to start a campaign to get rid of that horrible title that they've been given recently! )

 

Dave.

 

 

Edited 5 February , 2017 by CROONAERT

[8055Bell]

Thanks Dave,

I think I understand that Cemeteries were excluded from the list, with only registered burials recorded in the Individual Burial Location (Stand Corrected) maps.  What I find surprising is that a large number of of GRU registered graves from 1916 seem to be omitted from the maps in 27.a.  In contrast I can't find the 98 men registered in 27.b. 

 

Surely numbers only can have increased after 1916.

 

Tim

[8055Bell]

I've now found many more than 5 Registered graves in 27.c http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc2330593.JPG  I suppose it's possible the IBL map excluded 1918 burials.  This was not an acknowledged cemetery position in Montauban Alley - as far as I know.

[Howard]

4 hours ago, 8055Bell said:

1. Montauban is to the south of Grid 57C.S.  Has anyone seen an equivalent  map for the north of 62C.A - including the battlefield approach?

 

 

The file M_5_000762.jpg on the WFA Mapping the Front DVD - Somme 62c and 62D shows what you want. On the back of the map is the name Lt. Col. A.A. Messer, presumably the annotator.

There are also other maps from the same (Body Density) series and ones marked with the name Sir Herbert Ellissen. Both Ellissen and Messer were senior officers involved with cemeteries, burials etc.

Howard

 

 

[8055Bell]

Thanks Howard,

Order in hand.

Tim

[andrew pugh]

Hi Tim

I am doing some research on a small mass grave which contained the remains of 22 British soldiers.My research shows that most were killed 23/24th Match 1918.They were buried by the Germans at that time.They were discovered by the 182nd Labour Company in late October 1919.They were all found in the same grave at 57c.I.32.c.8.0 but I cannot find any record of the burial site on any body density map. I have managed to identify one of them, a re dedication service was held in Bancourt British Cemetery on the 24th March 2016, the same date of his death 24th March 1918.I am now waiting for a decision on 3 others whose cases I presented some time ago.

 

Kind Regards

Andy 

[8055Bell]

Hi Andy,

You have a great project there. I only have my phone for the net, so can't check the location you're researching.

As the density maps only included graves registered by the British, I imagine German burials were excluded.

Keep up the good work 

Tim