3rd/6th BMR; "M/cs Regiment, Lancashire Fusiliers

[Moonraker]

This card is captioned "3rd/6th B.M.R. Firing Party A.591." and was published by P Everill, a photographer from Westbury on the edge of Salisbury Plain. ("A. 591" may have been his own reference number.) On the back is this in pencil: "3rd/6th (TF) M/cs Regt. 25.3.15 - 8.4.1916".

 

The dates match those when the 3/6th Lancashire Fusiliers were at Codford Camp, 13 miles from Westbury - and Everill took a couple more photos of Codford in 1916.

 

But I can't reconcile the Fusiliers with "B.M.R." and "M/cs Regiment". I'm often suspicious of modern pencilled annotations on cards and perhaps any replies could focus on what "B.M.R." might stand for (though "M/cs Regiment also puzzles). I have a very comprehensive of infantry units based in Wiltshire during the war and can't find a likely match, apart from that for the Fusiliers.

 

Moonraker

[sotonmate]

M/R

 

Whilst not very clear the cap badge is definitely more of the shape of the Manchester than the LF.

As for BMR, might it be the B means Battalion and the rest Manch Reg ? Not sure that the Mcs is that, it could also be Mcr !

[John_Hartley]

3/6th Manchesters just doesnt feel right. As far as I know, the third line battalions were based in the Manchester area until spring 1916 when they moved to Witley until the autumn when they went to Southport. I base this on the information on the Long Long Trail and the Regimental Museum websites - and , when I was wriiting the 6th Battalion history, nothing came to light to suggest this wasnt the actual case. I suppose it's possible they had a brief period of training at Salisbury Plain but they do not appear ot have been based there for the period noted on the card.

 

John

[Moonraker]

Gentlemen, you follow the same routes that I did. In fact my original caption suggested that the card did show the Manchester Regiment and that it was their cap badge. My records suggest that various Manchester battalions were at Lark Hill from September to November 1915, including the 21st (6th City)  battalion, the Oldham Comrades which I don't think had a third line. Many units visited the Plain briefly to use the firing ranges.

 

Yes, I think it probably is "Mc/r".

 

It could be, of course, that Everill travelled from Westbury to Witley to photograph the 3/6th, but the background is far more like the Plain than Surrey.

 

"M" could suggest Manchester and "R" Regiment", but "B"?

 

Moonraker

[Ron Clifton]

I think the B is Bn for battalion, as it clearly is on the back of the card.

 

One of my great-uncles was a photographer and they used a blunt stylus to scratch the postcard titles onto the negative, much as today we sign electronically for packages. It was a fiddly job and there was't much room for error.

 

Ron

[Moonraker]

See this thread of 2005

 

for a related puzzle as to what the 3/42nd (South Lancs) Division - to which the 3/6th belonged - was doing at Codford when most sources say it was based at Witley. Some units did travel some distance for a VIP inspection (across Wiltshire, in some cases), but Witley to Codford is some 75 miles and an awkward rail journey.

 

Moonraker

[Moonraker]

The 3/5th Manchester Regiment (according to the experts based in Witley for most of 1916) was also at Codford for Sir John French's inspection.

 

Rootschat

 

(Scroll down a bit.)

 

And so was the 10th

 

whose Lieutenant Joseph Kirk died near Codford in February 1916.

 

Very strange that these units are ascribed to Witley, yet seem to have gone unnoticed at Codford!

 

One mistake some people make (especially when researching their ancestors) is to assume that because a division is recorded as being in one locality then its constituent units are also there. Divisional HQ would be, but elements might be scattered over several locations. But, as I've remarked, Codford is some distance from Witley.

 

Also 3/8th at Codford.

 

Oh, the irony! The 3/8th is mentioned at Codford in

 

my own book!

 

Moonraker

Edited 26 December , 2016 by Moonraker
several edits as I discover more facts

[charlie2]

To quote from Bill Mitchinson's Amateur Soldiers:

"The 3rd Battalion (Manchester Regt) spent some months at Codford on Salisbury Plain. ................... In early April 1916 it moved to Witley in Surrey"

 

Charlie

[Moonraker]

Very useful, Charlie. I have a postcard sent from Warminster (the nearest town to Codford) postmarked January 29, 1916 with the sender saying "General [sic] French to review 60,000 men". This doubtless was the occasion featured in the postcard to which I refer in the other thread, see link in post 6.

 

French had been promoted to field marshal in June 1913. Some years ago I did try  to read his diary to see if he had said anything about his visits to Wiltshire. On microfilm, I recall, difficult to decipher and very brief entries.

 

Moonraker